Decent cam for 360?

Small Block Mopar Engine

  1. 4geardemon

    4geardemon Well-Known Member

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    I have this bone stock 72 360. I would like to wake it up slightly. It purpose down the road will be sliding into a truck and hit the quarter.
    What would be a decent cam choice for the stock compression?
    I ran across an Edelbrock performer rpm intake for stupid cheap. So I plan to swap the stock intake for this one. I have an 800cfm Holley sitting on the shelf. Could this be detuned enough to not big too large for the stock specs? I am just trying to work with what I have.

    Any help is appreciated!!
     
  2. AJ/FormS

    AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s FABO Gold Member

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    Solid flat tappet, with 273 adjustable gear.
    But do a compression test first. There's no sense in up-camming a dead horse.
    That's a low-compression engine so you can't throw just any old cam in there, else in a streeter the bottom-end gets doggie in a hurry, requiring a high-stall TC and steep gears to get back. And if you put it in a heavy truck, it only gets worse.
    So it's in your best interest to keep the Ica as close to stock as possible. (Ica is intake valve closing angle.)
    With the factory 252/260/114 cam IIRC, the Ica works out to,lemmee see, ~56*..
    The factory flat tappet hydraulic cam IIRC is advertised at 252*, but that 252 still leaves the valve open ~.008x1.5=.012. And the factory cams have notoriously looooooong acceleration ramps. Which allows the rising piston to push some of that just-inducted mixture back up into the intake. This is worst at idle, and with that 252* cam is probably not happening much after 1800rpm anymore (guessing).
    So you want a cam with the fastest ramps you can find, that still has close to a 56* Ica to keep the cylinder pressure up, to keep the bottom-end strong...... unless you are also willing to install a hi-stall TC and swap in some higher-number gears....... which the truck is gonna need anyway, if you want some adrenaline to flow.
    But on a budget of just a cam, then back to the top.
    But I'll tell you the truth,as a low-compression streeter, nothing compares to more stall and big gears. With the cam-change guidelines described above, you might get 20 horsepower at 4800/5000, and maybe lose a few at 2000 stall. If you have a 2.76 factory-type gear now,then pay attention; you might end up slower out of the gate to say 34 mph, then about same as the factory cam to 45mph, then picking up power to peak at 57mph; all in first gear!. And after that the engine is likely to start getting soft in a hurry. With 3.23s the speed comes down 15%, at each marker.
    The gears on the other hand,adding say 20% to whatever you now have, is instantly gonna make the engine feel the same 20% more powerful. So from 2.76s this is 3.23s; and from 3.23s it's 3.91s. If it's still soft out of the gate,then increase the stall.
    Gears and stall are the fastest,cheapest solutions to a low-compression engine.
    After that is compression,and a cam to work with the higher compression.
    The solid flat tappet has about the most .050 duration for it's advertised size, and probably the most lift for it's size as well; if you are stuck with a low-compression combo.
    But you can get doggie SFT cams too, so buyer beware. The SFT cam-kit will require a way to set the valve-lash, and 273 gear is usually the cheapest. Nothing wrong with that 273gear at this power level.
    Time for the meat and potatoes.
    I'm gonna guess that factory 252* cam has an .050 of ~200 degrees, making it's ramp allowance 252 less 200=52*. Could be more IDK
    You can find SFT cams with under 40 degree ramp allowances so ;252 less 40 is 212* for an .050. That is almost two full sizes bigger where it counts (.050) with the same 252 advertised. And that 12* extra degrees translates to perhaps 20 horsepower, perhaps a bit more. With no loss in bottom-end.
    OK so now Steak and baked, with all the trimmings.;
    The factory cam is IIRC ground on a 114 to make it idle smooth and last a long long time maybe 50 years or so in your case.
    If you tighten that up to 110 or 108 even, it will pump up the power even more, and you can go one size bigger again with no loss in bottom end. Here are some artificial numbers;
    252/260/114+4, 28* o/lap, 124* comp, 112* extraction. stock HFT~200@.050
    252/260/110+0, 36* o/lap, 124* compression,120* extraction. SFT~212@.050
    256/260/108+0, 43* o/lap, 124* compression,120* extraction. SFT ~217@.050
    268/276/110+4, 52* o/lap, 120* compression,108* extraction. HFT ~224@.050
    In the first three examples,Notice;
    I kept the compression duration at 124*, to keep the bottom-end at least as strong as it is with the factory cam.
    I increased the overlap so that by 43* you want headers to cash in on the Fifth-Cycle.
    Notice the steady increase in .050 durations. More power at every step.
    The power extraction just is what it is, and is more than needed for your application but shows a steady increase in potential for increased fuel economy.
    All cams are theoretical.
    I'm unsure of the factory cam; it mightabin a 112, and probably less than 200*
    The point is, you can see the potential in the SolidFT capabilities. At 8/1 Scr, No gears and no TC; your 360 needs all the help it can get.
    If you would be willing to increase the stall and increase the rear gear, then you can run the next bigger cam, maybe even go back to a HFT like a
    268/276/110+4, 52* o/lap, 120 compression*,108*extraction. HFT 224*@.050 You can try this with whatever you got for stall and gears and make a decision later, based on the performance; but IMO you gotta budget for both. The 268 wants headers and a free-flowing dual exhaust,period to make the power. Log manifolds will just choke it.
    So to run the 268cam in an 8/1 Scr 360, you might as well budget for headers, exhaust, gears, and TC; about $2G for the drivetrain, plus probably upgrades to; the cooling system, the ignition system, and even the fuel system; could be another $1G. A 7.25 won't cut it for long, and you'll need a SureGrip, and bigger tires. And then your trans is gonna go out one day...... and on and on it goes.
    I once stuck a 268* cam into a stock 360 car with 2.94s and a 2000 stall TC, and IMO , my combo was a d-o-g.

    That 800 is gonna be way too big for this no stall no gears combo. At 8/1 Scr it might make the primaries sluggish. If a vacuum secondary, you can tune the secondaries slower so that part might work.If not a double pumper expect tuning troubles.
    This combo will like a 650 to 750 spreadbore. Or perhaps a 650DP.
    With gears and stall the 800 might work, and since you got it,just bolt it on.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
  3. gliderider06

    gliderider06 Well-Known Member

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    That carb is too big. 650 carb. Stock 340 cam or smallest voodoo series grind
     
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    • Johnny Dart

      Johnny Dart Well-Known Member

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      I'm like the Comp XE268 cam. Have that cam in my mild 360. Edelbrock RPM intake, Edelbrock 650 Thunder Series carb. 3.55 gear. The car impresses me everytime I drive it.
       
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      • toolmanmike

        toolmanmike FABO Staff Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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        :popcorn::popcorn: Always a lot of fun when someone asks about a cam.
         
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        • toolmanmike

          toolmanmike FABO Staff Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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          Good choice. Really too big for a 318 but a great cam for a 340/360. Edit: might not be worth a crap in a truck depending on all the other variables.
           
          Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
        • 318willrun

          318willrun Stomper 4x4... we kept energizer in business

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          Use the 800. Knowing nothing about the truck it's going in... (gears? converter? will it still be used as a truck that you are going to play with?) With knowing nothing about it, get something around .450 lift and 216-224 duration @ 050 with a 112 centerline.
           
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          • j par

            j par Well-hung Member

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            :popcorn:...oh boy... Here we go..
            Working with what you got and keeping it dirt-cheap I would use the cheap Summit 450 -460 lift Cam and lifters...
            A medium grade timing chain and gears. Meaning not the $25 one but not the $75 one like the $50 one... Without question put that big carburetor on! It'll only give what your motor will take...
            Have fun...
             
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            • rumblefish360

              rumblefish360 So close, yet so far away

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              BANG ON! ^^^^^

              Knowing the rear gear, tire size and if the converter is stock is a huge help. But 318WR hit the nail on the head.

              Ignore AJ.
               
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              • flyfish

                flyfish C8H18+N2O = :-D

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                What AJ said....minus the first 1067 words (literally)....which leaves us with "since you got it,just bolt it on" :lol:
                 
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                • Mopar Sam

                  Mopar Sam Well Fed Member

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                  Thanks! I was hoping someone would start making cliff notes for him.
                   
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                  • roccodart440

                    roccodart440 Well-Known Member

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                    You need to build more cylinder pressure. Read Aj's post and then narrow it down using that info or call and have a custom cam cut.
                     
                  • rumblefish360

                    rumblefish360 So close, yet so far away

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                    If AJ. could just nutshell it, he’d be wonderful.
                     
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                    • ir3333

                      ir3333 Well-Known Member

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                      XE 250 and 600 cfm.
                       
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                      • Wyrmrider

                        Wyrmrider Well-Known Member

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                        smallest Voodoo
                        forget 268, stock 340 or Summit
                         
                      • RustyRatRod

                        RustyRatRod 30 Degrees Outta Whack

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                        Something between 116-228 @ .050 ground on a 108. Lift "whatever" and solid or hydraulic is fine. Lunati makes some good grinds. So does Comp. If I was doing this to a bone stock engine, I would hawk Ebay for something old school that was NOS and cheap. Like some old Erson, Alliance, Cam Dynamics, Melling, or any other older grind that's new in the box but around the specs I listed. Also, use new match valve springs with whatever cam you choose. No sense getting into a pissing match with the forum gurus over a stock engine re-cam. Just stick with my outline and you will be happy with the added power, sound plus you'll come out cheaper. What's not to love?
                         
                      • Wyrmrider

                        Wyrmrider Well-Known Member

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                        Smallest Lunati Voodoo best shelf cam
                        forget any comp shorter than 274HL- no 250-256 262-268 little area for amount of duration
                        Forget summit -crane- cam dynamics cheap but obsolete
                        Forget 340 cam
                        you can use stickie at top of page
                        better would be custom from Bullet or Jones hyd is best
                         
                      • RustyRatRod

                        RustyRatRod 30 Degrees Outta Whack

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                        • j par

                          j par Well-hung Member

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                          • ir3333

                            ir3333 Well-Known Member

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                            Rusty gets it.
                            ...204 / .214 w stock 340 lift.Will pull hard from 800- 4800K!
                             
                            Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
                          • toolmanmike

                            toolmanmike FABO Staff Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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                            Stock cam spec:
                            360

                            2 barrel 71-74

                            Hydraulic

                            410/412

                            252/256

                            small block cams.JPG
                             
                          • ir3333

                            ir3333 Well-Known Member

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                            oops..i meant 340 lift specs. Edited my post to reflect that.
                             
                          • Wyrmrider

                            Wyrmrider Well-Known Member

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                            Melling cam is veryh old SBC lobe- it sucks
                            we used to buy these for cheap cores to regrind
                            AS said above he needs to get the intake closed early to build cylinder pressure- dynamic compression
                            he needs to open the exhaust late for maximum expansion
                            Timing on 250 comp is better
                            Timing on 256 comp is about Max
                            (from the diagrams @.006 on the comp website)
                            problem is all short comp cams have little lift for their duration
                            Jones 256 cam is actually shorter seat to seat thanthe comp 250 or shortest Voodoo but with .305 lobe lift and lots of area to still make some power.
                            Problem is cost and deliver ability but now that race season is over that should be easing
                            I'd buy JOnes but smallest Voodoo or custom Bullet are good second choices
                            Of course Engle, Crower etc can also grind a short high lift custom
                            other shelf cams may rev like crazy but leave much torque on the table
                             
                          • Slantsix64

                            Slantsix64 Well-Known Member

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                            if it's an auto I would degree and advance the camshaft.
                             
                          • toolmanmike

                            toolmanmike FABO Staff Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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                            Got a nice lope to it and a slow idle. 750 or so? Do you run a higher than stock converter? How does it perform off idle?
                             
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