desperatly need engine help

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skycuda67

skycuda67

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ok so been rebuilding the 318 for awhile, got everything all back together, when manually turning the engine before it was installed the thing sounded like it had great compression, we followed the book when putting the engine together, but now the thing is in the car, we try starting it up, nothing. have spark, adjusted timing, have fuel..checked compression in cylinder 1...zero. took off valve covers on both side, almost every pushrod was bent. the lift on the cam is .474, i know i dont know what im doing all that well so im mostly just listening to different people, some one told me thats a lot of lift, some guy today told me thats not much oversized at all. now im trying to figure out how to fix this and get the thing running soon. do i need shorter pushrods? adjustable rockers? different springs? valves were all redone before heads were on, not hitting piston, what do you guys think would the best way to go about this?
 
Retainer to guide clearance?
Coil bind on springs? If you used stock springs this is a possibility

Bottom line, you have a mechanical interference issue.
 
You should call the Cam manufacter and order the springs that go with the cam. When you install a new cam you should also install new springs as well. Jim
 
i would check pushrod lenght,make sure you adjusted valves on right stroke of motor.i bent a couple on start up due to not all the way done in the lifter seat
 
did you soak the lifters in oil before you tried to start engine..??
 
Cam is probably 180 , or lifters are pumped up, big no no, you should be able to replace the push rods and be fine that cam wont coilbind with stock springs let alone aftermarket springs
Side Note i hope thats the 114 version of the mp 484 otherwise your going to hate it {it is an mp cam right?}
What are the specs?
 
the cam specs are: (yea itsa mp)
Adv. Duration: .280°/280°
Dur. @ .050'': 238°/238°
Lift: .474''/.474''
Centerline: 110°
Basic RPM: 2000-6000 RPM

it was just the cam that came with the block and roller assembly, i bought it as a temp engine for the car while i built the 360 up. the cam was hardly bigger than the one it had before so i figured springs would be fine.
Cam is probably 180 , or lifters are pumped up, big no no, you should be able to replace the push rods and be fine that cam wont coilbind with stock springs let alone aftermarket springs
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you saying i should now be able to just replace the pushrods and it'll be fine without doing anything else? that'd sure be nice. haha it would suck to take the waterpump and timing cover off and redo it all. and what do you mean by lifters being "pumped up"? sorry this was my first build, and had a time schedule, i'll be sure to spend more time on the "real" engine!
Did you time the cam with both dots up or both dots together?
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and not sure it was an older friend of mine who installed the cam 0.0
 
The reason I ask is dad bought a 65 Formula S in the early 70s for 200 bucks cause the guy did a re-build and had the same trouble. I remember him retimimg the cam and it fired.
 
chryslerfat said:
The reason I ask is dad bought a 65 Formula S in the early 70s for 200 bucks cause the guy did a re-build and had the same trouble. I remember him retimimg the cam and it fired.
Click to expand...
so whats that require entirely? if its hard to explain i'll just try and find a good description
 
The waterpump and timing cover have to come off for this. Then check to see where your dots on the gears are when the #1 piston is at TDC.
 
Start from the beginning by first making sure that the cam is set correctly to the crank (dot to dot) with #1 at TDC end of compression stroke beginning power stroke. If this is correct pull the heads and have the retainers and checked for coil bind with that cam. Check the valve stem to guide clearance on all 16 valves and check each valve to make sure you didn't bend one of them shortly before bending the push rods. The push rods are usually the first to bend if the piston hits the valve, because the cam is set wrong, but all the valve stems need to be checked anyway.
I have my doubts that this problem is going to cheap and dirty, sorry.

Terry
 
chryslerfat said:
Did you time the cam with both dots up or both dots together?
Click to expand...

fishman said:
There's the right ?
Click to expand...

Sorry but that doesn't matter other than the distributor timing, it would be on #1 usually with the dot at the top and #6 with dot at the bottom.

As long as the crank dot was at the 12 o'clock position, you can do it either way.

Put the gearset on, cam dot at 6 o'clock and crank dot at 12 o'clock,turn the crank one revolution. Guess where the cam gear dot will be? You got it, the cam gear dot will be at the 12 o'clock position.
 
Is the timing gearset a multi keyway set up?

If so, I've seen more than a few installed with the wrong timing reference dot used. Put gear on at the triangle and use the dot for alignment, not the triangle reference dot.
 
Dotchguy said:
Cam is probably 180 , or lifters are pumped up, big no no, you should be able to replace the push rods and be fine
Click to expand...
ok just to check are you saying that if the lifters didnt have enough oil in them that that could be why the rods bent? and now that the engine has had oil pumped all through it, its now fine and just needs the new push rods to work? i wasnt there for the installation of the cam, lifters and rods but i doubt they were soaked in oil before being put in like some one mentioned. sooo hoping it could be somthing simple!
 
Could also be wrong length pushrods. Were the heads milled/block decked?

Did you check your required pushrod length with an adjustable pushrod?
 
doulbe check cam timing, check pushrod lenght. i would say lifters were not pumped up and when they did made rockerarms to tight and then bent the pushrods.
 
Skycuda: My hats off to ya buddy on trying your first. You gotta start somewhere. I've never built a motor myself but have everything to do it with. On the pumped up lifter issue. From what i'm reading to help you understand the issue is that when the lifters are pumped "UP" they stand taller and that's when rocker adjustments take place. If the lifters are not pumped up they are in a collasped nature, being shorter. If rockers are adjusted at this point the push rods are compressed at too low of point then upon the lifters pumping up they put too much pressure on the then too long push rod. The push rods are not too long and all seems to be correct except the lifters need to be standing up "Pumped Up" before making any rocker adjustments. Is this correct guys. I'm learning also. Thanks

Small Block
 
im not sure about pushrod length actually, they were just the rods that were used with the cam before this one, it had 435 lift, and this one has 474, think thats enough to do it? im leaning more towards the lifters not being pumped because some of these things were bent a loot more, so maybe those lifters were lowest when put in? it might be a combination of everything too, since i cant verify if the cam was put in correct. all i remember was he put the thing in, then dropped in the gear and spun everything till the slot pointed at cylinder 1
 
skycuda67 said:
ok just to check are you saying that if the lifters didnt have enough oil in them that that could be why the rods bent? and now that the engine has had oil pumped all through it, its now fine and just needs the new push rods to work? i wasnt there for the installation of the cam, lifters and rods but i doubt they were soaked in oil before being put in like some one mentioned. sooo hoping it could be somthing simple!
Click to expand...
LOL thats not what I meant..thats best case if you or someone else prepumped the lifters they could be @ max and cause interferance, im saying if you find the problem and you DO! have one somewhere! and your lucky you MAY be able to replace the pushrods and go you MUST find the problem first and you are probably going to have to pull the cover {I would .if it waxed all the push rods when just cranking imagine if you have the same problem and it fires up?} you have interferance somewhere ...also: you have the cam card but are you sure thats the card if from the cam thats ACTUALY installed? coilbind probably not , retainer interfearance probably not{going by the info you gave} it;s a MUST to check and recheck all the parts installed keep all the info and double check part numbers ESPECIALY if you are a first time builder parts get reboxed , mismarked , ...do the hard work and pull the timing cover if you dont find the problem up top , put the engine on TDC VIA the timing mark and post where the lobes are in relation to the piston {on number one cylinder} unless someone dicked with the retainer from stock its fine , stock lenght pushrods or what? Take a stock hyd lifter{or 2} stick it in some oil use a push rod to pump it up all the way untill it wont pump up any more pop them in , put in 2 pushrods{on number 1} rotate the engine untill intake is at max lift {begins heading down} stick a feeler guage between your springs { middle of the spring} POST your finding , AT max lift check inside the spring and make sure you have a minimum of 060 retainer to guide clearance POST your results, while your at it take an empty lifter stick it in the hole with a push rod let it bottom out place a straigh edge ot the top of the lifter mark the pushrod with a pencil or sharpie remove the rocker gear and once again place a straight edge on the same place you did previously and mark again the distance between the 2 marks is your "lifter preLoad" post your results here....Do all this before you tear in the engine and DO NOT force the engine to roll over if it gives you resistance POST YOUR FINDINGS HERE BEFORE trying again to start the engine~
:coffee2:
 
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