Destroyed 440

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phaelax

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Without tearing it fully apart, all I knew for sure was the camshaft was broken. Finally got it to my mechanic to tear it down and it's all bad news. Crank is no good, block is unsalvagable.

I found a rebuilt '78 440 for $1100, I think it'll be my cheapest option at this point.
 
Without tearing it fully apart, all I knew for sure was the camshaft was broken. Finally got it to my mechanic to tear it down and it's all bad news. Crank is no good, block is unsalvagable.

I found a rebuilt '78 440 for $1100, I think it'll be my cheapest option at this point.

ouch
 
I "lost" the original "sixpack" out of my 70 RR back in about 72 or 73 going from San Diego to I guess Dixon to see a friend. This happened at "late night" on the freeway S of stockton. "Do you hear that funny vibration?" I asked my friend? Bla bla bla and Bla bla blizhy blazhy and "maybe a fan belt has a bad spot" etc etc

Wham, blam, thank you mam!!

No 6 rod lost the cap, did some other things, broke one or two rods next to it and one of the broke rods swung around and broke the cam in about 4 pieces, one of which had two lobes on it LOL

So now the valves are all stopped BUT THE PISTONS ARE NOT!!!

One rod went through the block, and it or another went through the pan.

We were lucky the oil and antifreeze didn't slide us off the road at 70 mph.

Walked for hours, and miles, got picked up, taken to a service station in the middle of nowhwere, being closed for the night by two brothers? Cousins? who were well on the road to getting loaded.

Towed the car to the service station, and got a ride in the really drunk wrecker to Stockton. Now it's like 2AM

We are standing on a corner next to a hore-tel thinking about what to do.

Here comes a motorcycle cop who I hail down.

"Hi, my car broke down, what's a good ride out of town?"

"You tried hitchhiking?"

"Sorry you don't understand........we have some money, we are looking for trains, cars, boats, airplanes..........?"

"You tried hitchhiking?" LOL

So we put in a call for 6AM at the whoretel to catch a plane, and when we get waked up, decide, "screw this" "we can rent a Uhaul and tow it back"

NOPE

So we had to hang around town until afternoon, take a BUS to 'Frisco, a taxi to the Oakland airport, and a PSA flight back to San Diego.

Taxi from the airport to National City. Get Gary's truck. He has no hitch. Drive ALL the way from National City N to NAS Miramar, and get my 64 426 Dodge. Rent a towbar. Drive ALL the way back up to "almost Stockton" (again in the middle of the night) to get the RR, where we DISTURBED THE STATION OWNER'S DAUGHTER AND BOYFRIEND who were having a little "fun" in the trailer parked out back LOL

And.............towed the thing all the way home to NAS Miramar

I pulled the valve covers, distributor, and intake manifold, and threw the rest in the dumpster!!!
 
I'll get some pics when I take the other engine in. They told me a cylinder was missing! They think they found a few fragments of it.

Car sat over last winter. I fired it up this spring, warmed up about 10 minutes then took off down the street. Nothing aggressive, casual driving. I made it 3 blocks and instant lock up.
 
I'll get some pics when I take the other engine in. They told me a cylinder was missing! They think they found a few fragments of it.

Car sat over last winter. I fired it up this spring, warmed up about 10 minutes then took off down the street. Nothing aggressive, casual driving. I made it 3 blocks and instant lock up.
an entire cylinder missing?!
 
I "lost" the original "sixpack" out of my 70 RR back in about 72 or 73 going from San Diego to I guess Dixon to see a friend. This happened at "late night" on the freeway S of stockton. "Do you hear that funny vibration?" I asked my friend? Bla bla bla and Bla bla blizhy blazhy and "maybe a fan belt has a bad spot" etc etc

Wham, blam, thank you mam!!

No 6 rod lost the cap, did some other things, broke one or two rods next to it and one of the broke rods swung around and broke the cam in about 4 pieces, one of which had two lobes on it LOL

So now the valves are all stopped BUT THE PISTONS ARE NOT!!!

One rod went through the block, and it or another went through the pan.

We were lucky the oil and antifreeze didn't slide us off the road at 70 mph.

Walked for hours, and miles, got picked up, taken to a service station in the middle of nowhwere, being closed for the night by two brothers? Cousins? who were well on the road to getting loaded.

Towed the car to the service station, and got a ride in the really drunk wrecker to Stockton. Now it's like 2AM

We are standing on a corner next to a hore-tel thinking about what to do.

Here comes a motorcycle cop who I hail down.

"Hi, my car broke down, what's a good ride out of town?"

"You tried hitchhiking?"

"Sorry you don't understand........we have some money, we are looking for trains, cars, boats, airplanes..........?"

"You tried hitchhiking?" LOL

So we put in a call for 6AM at the whoretel to catch a plane, and when we get waked up, decide, "screw this" "we can rent a Uhaul and tow it back"

NOPE

So we had to hang around town until afternoon, take a BUS to 'Frisco, a taxi to the Oakland airport, and a PSA flight back to San Diego.

Taxi from the airport to National City. Get Gary's truck. He has no hitch. Drive ALL the way from National City N to NAS Miramar, and get my 64 426 Dodge. Rent a towbar. Drive ALL the way back up to "almost Stockton" (again in the middle of the night) to get the RR, where we DISTURBED THE STATION OWNER'S DAUGHTER AND BOYFRIEND who were having a little "fun" in the trailer parked out back LOL

And.............towed the thing all the way home to NAS Miramar

I pulled the valve covers, distributor, and intake manifold, and threw the rest in the dumpster!!!
One helleva story
 
One helleva story

When I got it back to Miramar, I towed it out to the RADAR site, next morning my leading Chief, who could do an EXCELLENT impression of "Columbo......."..............they were all out there admiring the damage

So the chief frowns in thought, "knits" his eyebrows together, and says "I just have one little question.............Are you supposed to look INTO the engine and see the GROUND below??"
 
an entire cylinder missing?!
That's what I was told over the phone.

I just picked up the '78 motor yesterday and will get it over to the garage this afternoon. It looks in good shape far as I can tell. Oil pan looks deeper, maybe off a truck?

My only concern is the power. After some reading last night, I guess this 440 has a much lower compression than the 10.5 my old one had. Somewhere between 7.5 and 8 from what I've read. And with the mild cam, the hp is pretty low. The guy told me the heads on it for that year performed more like 906.

Anyone have info about the difference between the '78 engine and my old one from '71?
 
That's what I was told over the phone.

I just picked up the '78 motor yesterday and will get it over to the garage this afternoon. It looks in good shape far as I can tell. Oil pan looks deeper, maybe off a truck?

My only concern is the power. After some reading last night, I guess this 440 has a much lower compression than the 10.5 my old one had. Somewhere between 7.5 and 8 from what I've read. And with the mild cam, the hp is pretty low. The guy told me the heads on it for that year performed more like 906.

Anyone have info about the difference between the '78 engine and my old one from '71?
I do but why re-type when 440source probably has the best write up I've ever seen comparing them.

440 Source.com Everything you've ever wanted to know about blocks and more....

biggest thing to note, the 71 440 is a forged crank 440(should be) which means internally balanced. The 78 is a cast crank and externally balanced. You'll need to either have it internally balanced to work with your existing converter/flywheel and dampener or source the proper stuff for the 78 to work with your setup.
 
Would anyone recommend different heads if I wish to achieve 400+ hp? I don't intend on racing the car but it still needs some muscle. I was looking at the stealth aluminum heads on 440source, price seems good but is it worth replacing the ones off that '78? I'm looking at having my shop put in comp cam's 507 over whatever "mild" cam is in it now. (the guy didn't know for sure)
 
Would anyone recommend different heads if I wish to achieve 400+ hp? I don't intend on racing the car but it still needs some muscle. I was looking at the stealth aluminum heads on 440source, price seems good but is it worth replacing the ones off that '78? I'm looking at having my shop put in comp cam's 507 over whatever "mild" cam is in it now. (the guy didn't know for sure)

first, keep in mind that 400 is easily done on a 440. Very easily. however you need to find out what heads are on the 78. Most likely they are the 452 series heads, which flow pretty well. @IQ52 is the resident head guru, he would know more. 346 or 906 heads work pretty well too. Cylinder heads are the key to power, so it'll never HURT to upgrade to the 440 source heads. Just have them checked by a quality head expert, they do have some QC issues from time to time. the biggest draw back to the 78 is gonna be compression. bump that closer to 10:1, and you'll break 400- 450 easily. Do a search on here for Pop's 440 build by IQ52. It's a great thread, im copying that combination as closely as possible.
 
I have the shop redoing the front suspension while the motor is out, it needs it. Further updates, torque converter is chewed up and flex plate is bent. He thinks the 4000 stall was too much for the car's build and may have caused the damage. We'll reuse the oil pan and intake from my old motor. Says both engines have the same heads.

Photos or it didn't happen...
I have some now, my brother took them when he dropped off the new engine. He's not the best photographer but I think you'll be able to see the damage well enough.

mnY24Ze.jpg


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ISTB7IQ.jpg
 
Slightly used, vintage mopar engine for sale. Only $3k for this one of a kind, lightly modified piece of history. Buy now before someone else beats you to it!
 
I have the shop redoing the front suspension while the motor is out, it needs it. Further updates, torque converter is chewed up and flex plate is bent. He thinks the 4000 stall was too much for the car's build and may have caused the damage. We'll reuse the oil pan and intake from my old motor. Says both engines have the same heads.


I have some now, my brother took them when he dropped off the new engine. He's not the best photographer but I think you'll be able to see the damage well enough.

View attachment 1715105984

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View attachment 1715105987

wow! I dont see a torque converter being the sole cause of that but wow!
 
Slightly used, vintage mopar engine for sale. Only $3k for this one of a kind, lightly modified piece of history. Buy now before someone else beats you to it!
no... but if you wanna sell the heads I may be interested depending on condition/price
 
I'll pick up the leftover parts thursday and take some pics for you. They said it already looks like they've been machined down several times and wouldn't recommend doing it again. The block I'm thinking of cleaning up and turning into a coffee table. A very heavy coffee table.
 
4k converter is nothing crazy and is pretty well suited to most moderate 440 builds. I don't think that was your issue.
 
If all it did was blow the cylinder wall out and has no other cracks I'd sleeve that thing and run it. I've sleeved and saved way worse than that.
 
I have the shop redoing the front suspension while the motor is out, it needs it. Further updates, torque converter is chewed up and flex plate is bent. He thinks the 4000 stall was too much for the car's build and may have caused the damage. We'll reuse the oil pan and intake from my old motor. Says both engines have the same heads.


I have some now, my brother took them when he dropped off the new engine. He's not the best photographer but I think you'll be able to see the damage well enough.

View attachment 1715105984

View attachment 1715105985

View attachment 1715105986

View attachment 1715105987

Now there is a serious wound. Reminds me of the time a B-engine was running on Comp Cams dyno and we heard what sounded like a baseball bat striking a pillow----WHUMP! When they removed the headers you could look into the exhaust port on #2 cylinder and see the camshaft in the lifter valley. Think about that one!
 
Got a clearer image of the cylinder wall when I finally had a chance to get to the shop to see it disassembled in person. I wouldn't trust a sleeve in that. on the far right of the image, you can see a crack almost the entire length. And one of the holes is just too large. Found the piston, it looks like a busted chewed up rock.

Other issues with the car, the transmission wasn't even bolted to the crossmember. All the bolts were missing. Half the bolts were missing for something else, I can't remember what. Fan clutch was seized up. Not sure when that happened, I recall it spinning last time I looked under the hood (which is pretty much any time I run the car). Something with the starter was bad too, gear chewed up maybe I can't recall. Either way, I still have the mini starter I bought awhile back and never got around to putting it in. And my shift cable got melted by the headers.

They pounded out and reshaped my oil pan which was caved in about an inch they said. Pretty sure I can recall what most likely caused that one. High speed and an unexpected dip in the road with a car that sits too damn low.

As far as the build goes, going with a new cam, something around 488. A 2500 stall. And if possible, swapping out the dominator dual plane intake for a mopar single plane. The issue is clearance, as the mopar is about an inch or more taller and I don't know if I have that much hood room to spare. That's really about it. A new exhaust is planned, but I may wait until spring to do that.

I have come up with another idea for the old block. I was a welder in the army and in our shop we had an thermal lance that we've never used. I'd like to call up my chief and ask him if I can swing by and use it and let my old squad have some fun.

MW3v3J0.jpg
 
I am no expert but I would get some other opinions before you put the engine together. Seems to me that your proposed build is going backwards. The tighter converter and single plane intake dont work together. Without boring and changing pistons your compression still be low.... if your old converter was a quality piece you will be way farther ahead if you have it freshened over buying an off the shelf converter. Just my 2 cents.......
 
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