Developed a tick

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Frnknsteen

Frnknsteen

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Ok guys,.. I could use a little advice.....

My '67 Barracuda has a '77 400 in it. I took it to a Cars & Coffee event last Saturday and noticed I had a little lifter tick when the car first started, but went away within a second or two. Drove it to the event and came home (about 20 miles each way).

Sunday night, I decided to put the new components for my steering coupler in. Got everything put in and took it for a test drive to check out the steering. Went through a couple sharp corners and noticed my oil pressure gauge was jumping from it's normal 60 down to 20 and back up to normal (never saw it go below 20, but can't guarantee it didn't briefly), but the ticking returned and didn't go away. Figured I was low on oil and it was sloshing in the pan. Babied it home and into the garage. Oil pressure was holding well all the way home, but it was still ticking constantly. Topped off the oil (it was about a quart and a half low .... I know.... Stupid me!!) and the ticking didn't go away.

Last night a friend came over and we started looking into it. Determined it was coming from the passenger side, and sounded like #2 cylinder. Pulled the valve cover off. Car has stock stamped, non-adjustable rockers on it. The exhaust rocker on cyl #2 seemed loose. It didn't seem to have much play up and down, but it wiggled on the rocker shaft more than the others and you could grab the pushrod and not only easily turn it, but could wiggle it around. Seems like not enough pre-load on the hydraulic lifter.

So my questions are this.... Do I:

A: Replace that lifter in case there is something wrong inside it, or crap got into it. (both lifters seemed pumped up well and couldn't be compressed much)?
B: Order a set of adjustable rockers so I will be able to adjust preload on the lifters?
C: Both
D: Is there a helpful tool that will let me pull those lifters and replace them without pulling the heads?


If the answer is to order adjustable rockers, do I need new pushrods? How do I know what to order (length)?

Any advice would be welcome. I did not build the motor, so I don't really know how it was originally set up in regards to valve height, lifter pre-load, etc.

Thanks!
 
Just curious, what brand of lifters? Comp had had a lot of issues. If you do replace a lifter, make sure the lifter is crowned and not dished. If dished you probably have a cam lobe going away.
 
toolmanmike said:
Just curious, what brand of lifters? Comp had had a lot of issues. If you do replace a lifter, make sure the lifter is crowned and not dished. If dished you probably have a cam lobe going away.
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motorpirate said:
sounds like you are wiping a lobe. I would at least pull the intake and have a look.
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That's not the answer I was looking for guys!! :) Unfortunately, that was running around in my mind too (cam issue), but it came on so sudden. Never had a cam wipe a lobe before. Can it happen that fast? Car was running great, then poof.... lifter noise!

As I said before, I'm not sure what components are in the motor. The previous owner couldn't find his folder with all the receipts. He did tell me it had a Competition Cams cam in it. I guess it could be a safe assumption that he may have gone with a Comp Cams cam and lifter set. Guess if I have to pull it apart, I will at least know what's in there now!
 
Frnknsteen said:
That's not the answer I was looking for guys!! :) Unfortunately, that was running around in my mind too (cam issue), but it came on so sudden. Never had a cam wipe a lobe before. Can it happen that fast? Car was running great, then poof.... lifter noise!

As I said before, I'm not sure what components are in the motor. The previous owner couldn't find his folder with all the receipts. He did tell me it had a Competition Cams cam in it. I guess it could be a safe assumption that he may have gone with a Comp Cams cam and lifter set. Guess if I have to pull it apart, I will at least know what's in there now!
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Never good news for sure. My buddies 440 had a Couple Comp lifters go south. The perf. shop that built the engine has had multiple issues with Comp lifters. I don't know what brand of lifters I would use if I were to switch cams. May be someone can reccomend a different brand.
 
They only way to know for sure is to pull the lifters, if one or more are dished the cam is done for.
Are you using a Zinc enriched oil?
 
512Stroker said:
They only way to know for sure is to pull the lifters, if one or more are dished the cam is done for.
Are you using a Zinc enriched oil?
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I am, but I have no idea what the previous owner used. I have been using 10w-30 Valvoline VR1 Racing "with high zinc". Can anyone suggest alternatives that might be better for the future?

Sounds like I will be pulling the intake tonight to get to the cam and lifters. What's the best way to confirm if the lifters are dished? Lay a straight edge across the bottom and look for a gap?
 
Frnknsteen said:
I am, but I have no idea what the previous owner used. I have been using 10w-30 Valvoline VR1 Racing "with high zinc". Can anyone suggest alternatives that might be better for the future?

Sounds like I will be pulling the intake tonight to get to the cam and lifters. What's the best way to confirm if the lifters are dished? Lay a straight edge across the bottom and look for a gap?
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You are using very good oil. I have run it for years with no problems. You can use a straight edge, it real easy to tell not tricks to it.
 
Hopefully it was a slow death for the lifter (if that's whats wrong) cause a fast failed lifter makes a mess.
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Ok,... So I did a little investigative work last night. Pulled the intake and looked at the cam and lifters. Cam wear looks fine by the wear pattern. No excessive wear on the lobes, and the pattern looks like the lifters have been riding correctly and turning as intended. Lifters look fine and still have a crown on them and a nice faint circular wear mark. Everything look just how I would expect for a motor that only has a couple thousand miles on it.

So,... I decided to check out the amount of preload on the lifters. The lifters I checked were fully pumped up and very difficult to compress. To check preload, I tightened the rocker shafts back down, then slowly loosened each fastener in very small increments until I felt movement in the rockers. Too small of a gap to get an accurate measurement between the rocker shaft and the risers, but I thought of another way to calculate it.

I only had to loosen the rocker shafts bolts 1/8 turn before I started feeling play in the rockers. The bolts have a thread pitch of 16 threads per inch, which means 1 full turn is 1/16th of an inch, or .0625". If I only turned it 1/8 of a turn before I had play on the stamped rockers, that should mean I only have about .0078" (.0625"/8=.0078") of preload on the pushrods and lifter. That doesn't seem like enough. One little bit of difference in rocker stampings, or a minute amount of wear would explain my ticking I am hearing.

So my question is this,.... Does it make sense to measure my pushrods and get some that are a bit longer? I pulled all 8 pushrods out of the motor so I could measure them all and see what the min and max lengths are. I'm thinking I need something .015" - .020" longer pushrods to get the proper preload on the non-adjustable stamped rockers.

Can someone tell me what the preferred preload amount is on these motors to confirm my theory. In the past, on adjustable rockers, I have always taken out all the lash, and given an extra 1/2 to 3/4 turn, which in this case would put in .031 - .046" of preload (.0625" x .5 = .031" .0625" x .75 = .046"). If I were to get .020" longer pushrods, it should put me about .028" of preload.

Opinions??
 
mopowers said:
I would call Comp and ask what they recommend for preload on those particular lifters you have.
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Good idea. I just went onto their website and found an "Instructions" PDF file that says that preload should be 1/2 - 3/4 turn, or .030" - .040" preload. With what I measured, buying pushrods .020" longer than what I have should put me at around .028", which is in the ballpark, but .025" longer might be better, as it should drop me in around .033" of preload.

I think I will measure my pushrods and find out how much variation there is in their lengths and hopefully find something that brings the whole group into the correct range.
 
Frnknsteen said:
Good idea. I just went onto their website and found an "Instructions" PDF file that says that preload should be 1/2 - 3/4 turn, or .030" - .040" preload. With what I measured, buying pushrods .020" longer than what I have should put me at around .028", which is in the ballpark, but .025" longer might be better, as it should drop me in around .033" of preload.

I think I will measure my pushrods and find out how much variation there is in their lengths and hopefully find something that brings the whole group into the correct range.
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Are all your push rods straight? A bent one could be causing your "tick".
 
In my experience these motors (and others) have the occasional come and go lifter ticks that can be there one day and gone the next. (or even 5 min later)
Sometimes a little piece of garbage can get in them and then clearing itself after a good drive.
I see this especially when the car is not driven frequently.

If it stayed for days I might start to be a little concerned.
 
Also, look at the pushrod ends. I had bought Edelbrock pushrods, and they started disintegrating on the ends. Changed pushrods, no issues.
 
Just putting this out there although it sounds like you have done some a pretty thorough investigation, but have you ruled out exhaust leak? In my case recently I had an exhaust leak between where the primaries come together that was impossible to see and at the time I would've put money on it that it was lifters. Although my car was in garage where the sound echoed a bit more.
 
512Stroker said:
Are all your push rods straight? A bent one could be causing your "tick".
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Yep. Rolled all the pushrods on a piece of glass and they all rolled smooth. That was the first thing I checked, thinking the same thing, that it may have been a bent pushrod. Thanks though!

TrailBeast said:
If it stayed for days I might start to be a little concerned.
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It stayed and wasn't going away. Loosened everything up and retightened and it still did it. We were able to confirm I had a loose pushrod on the one that seemed to be making the noise. I was able to wiggle the rocker and pushrod more than the others. Others spun easily, but not as bad as the one that seemed to be making the noise. That's why we thought collapsed lifter or bent pushrod, but everything checked out ok.

furyus2 said:
Also, look at the pushrod ends. I had bought Edelbrock pushrods, and they started disintegrating on the ends. Changed pushrods, no issues.
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Pushrod ends all look good, intact, and no visible damage

fishfly said:
Just putting this out there although it sounds like you have done some a pretty thorough investigation, but have you ruled out exhaust leak?
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Yep,... this wasn't a minor tick. I've had exhaust leaks that sound just like a lifter tick. This was more of a clacking sound. You could definitely tell it was coming from the passenger side valve cover, and got louder when we opened up the valve cover. Sounded like a rocker before you adjust the lash.
 
Fixed! Got the longer pushrods I had to order. Put them in and torqued everything down. Motor is running good with no more tick.

Thanks for all the information and ideas guys!
 
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