Dirty ebayer selling VIN tag, etc

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VIN plates are prohibited on EBay

i filed a report with ebay cust service, i encourage others to do so as well
 
You can use these parts with a dynacore body. With a fresh body you can legally use these items with permission from the DMV and local law enforcement.

Now I'm sure some a-hole would build a car and try to pass it off as legit, that's the illegal part.

Riddler
 
You can use these parts with a dynacore body. With a fresh body you can legally use these items with permission from the DMV and local law enforcement.

Now I'm sure some a-hole would build a car and try to pass it off as legit, that's the illegal part.

Riddler

Yes and you can go steal someone else's car and reVIN it too.


He is covering the last digits of the VIN because he knows it is illegal. I hit the report button this one.
 
Damn!!! he's from Kansas--he needs to go to the Phelp's church & stay there,Lawrence
 
Wonder what you would do with a new reproduction body if you get one. If I had the money I would buy a title so I wouldn't have to meet todays emmision standards. Just saying.

On the other hand I could see them being used to retitle someones elses ride they stole. That would suck. They were selling them at carlisle on signs. They were advertised as bare shells with paperwork for rebuild. Wouldn't that be the same thing. It seems that it is a problem that will continue in all makes and models.

It would be the rich that would need them. Or the crooks. Either way I don't think it will be stopped. I believe that if a car was not registered for a long period of time that it should be inspected and all stampings should be in place. If they are not the car should be confiscated.

How else would you ever stop transfer of numbers. But good luck.

I have my car for many years the rad support was changed after a wreck. Th numbers on the package tray were cut out for a cage. and the original motor was grenaded in 1978. So all my car has is the original trans case the dash tag and the data plate. The car was Bahama yellow , in-violet, white, hemi, orange, and now ford orange. would that make my car a illegal clone.

I just think numbers are numbers . If you really dig into the car you can tell what you are buying. If you are not sure don't buy it. Or if the car looks redone than its not original anyway. I know of a 70 hemi RR that was purchaced a Barrett Jackson on line as a documented car . The Engine code on the dash was a N. When I pointed it out to the guy that was arguing with others he flipped out and left the show at the Slatington airport. He paid $90,000 for it. He still has the car. The red 440 sixpack GTX that just sold there was also a clone and it was stated on the block. The mud buggy still went for $100,000.

So what does it really matter Its the love of the ride not the numbers. If I wanted cartain muscle car driver. I would rather have a pristine heavily optioned car done right my way my color. Then buying a base model ugly color ,moldy, faded ,numbers matching car. That every one walks past at a show with no interest.

My car in a show field is like a pumpkin in a pepper patch and draws a lot of people. Won several shows and it isn't even a mopar color. Also it is far from original or numbers matching.

So I say build them it would just add to the mopar rides we can look at. How many cars on this site are still all original. But we enjoy seeing them. I like the guys who build them more then the guys who buy them . They are the ones that keep it all going.

Here's my made to order Duster. AKA clone if you want to get technical. Lets see all the others that are not the way they came. Who are the honest members here anyway
 

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The eBay auction is bye bye.

Here in Oklahoma the correct way to assemble a car is done with the VIN inspection by law enforcement of the original car. They will give you the correct paperwork to be able to register the assembled car. I am sure this would vary from state to state.
 
The eBay auction is bye bye.

Here in Oklahoma the correct way to assemble a car is done with the VIN inspection by law enforcement of the original car. They will give you the correct paperwork to be able to register the assembled car. I am sure this would vary from state to state.
Yes it is not that way here in Pa. A out of state car does not need a inspection to get a title. Just a tracing of the vin. And a old registration. Owner doesn't have to be present.

Another words if I take my neighbors car and transfer it to another state with the vin only. I can bring it back to Pa. and its mine.

My 69 Corronet R/T was taken like this in 73 . I see it and I called the Police and there is nothing I can do. The new title supersedes the old. After 7 years the theft report no longer exists. If you don't keep updating it. So now my car belongs to a old friend. If I find the car on the road I will run it over with my Diesel. Then give my insurance my title which I still have. Then see what happens.
 
Yes it is not that way here in Pa. A out of state car does not need a inspection to get a title. Just a tracing of the vin. And a old registration. Owner doesn't have to be present.

Another words if I take my neighbors car and transfer it to another state with the vin only. I can bring it back to Pa. and its mine.

My 69 Corronet R/T was taken like this in 73 . I see it and I called the Police and there is nothing I can do. The new title supersedes the old. After 7 years the theft report no longer exists. If you don't keep updating it. So now my car belongs to a old friend. If I find the car on the road I will run it over with my Diesel. Then give my insurance my title which I still have. Then see what happens.

Wow, PA is screwed up. A stolen car stays in the records for a lot longer than that (maybe for ever). They recently recovered one the was stolen about 30 years ago and reunited it with its original owner.

A VIN inspection has to be done here on any car coming in from out of state. If it is just a normal transfer the tag agency can do it. If it is an built/assembled car (even if everything is in state) built by using more than one car then law enforcement has to do it. If it was just a core support change from being damaged you don't have to do anything. There is nothing done for a motor change out here.
 
inspection has to be done in n.c. on out of state cars too.good idea i think.
 
You can use these parts with a dynacore body. With a fresh body you can legally use these items with permission from the DMV and local law enforcement.

Now I'm sure some a-hole would build a car and try to pass it off as legit, that's the illegal part.

Riddler

Nope, this is flat-out incorrect.

It is illegal, any way shape and form, to remove a vin tag, and especially to apply to another vehicle. That's Federal law.

In the state of Missouri, the Dynacorn bodies are registered as custom-built vehicles, same as rail buggies and trikes.

See OKcarcollectors policies on title transfer for applicable situations in Missouri.

Stolen vehicles are on record permanently, now. My Neon got stolen, recovered the next day. I screwed up the license plate number when I reported it stolen two years ago, and I'm still getting pulled over regularly. Seems you can't report a different vehicle recovered than what was reported stolen, and you can't unreport the wrong vehicle being stolen, so whoop whoop sound of police.
 
it is not illegal in all state. I seen plenty go across auctions stating the car was re bodied. The problem I have is the ones that hide that it was re bodied and try to pass it on as original.
 
You can do it in Georgia. I used to work at a shop years ago that rebuilt totaled vehicles. Bought them from insurance companies, completely repaired them, retitled them and sold them. In Georgia, you have to have the GBI come out and inspect them. Then you can reapply for a non salvage title. All of the repairs have to be disclosed at the time of sale, but it's legal. We rebodied many cars when I worked there. All inspected, retitled and sold legally. Those guys favorite cars at that shop were Ford Escorts. They could cut them apart anywhere at any body seam, put good sections on and you couldn't tell other than fresh paint anything had been done. I was the alignment man and saw the finished product. Frankie probably remembers the shop. It was Eubanks Garage right off Eisenhower. Carl was in business a long time. He's dead now, but he was a card for sure.
 
I have done some research recently on "re bodies" and found laws are different from state to state. If you legally own both cars and have the paperwork for both, it's perfectly legal... They have been doing it on trucks for years and years. How many cummins dodge trucks are out there that have replacement cabs etc... And they just changed the dash over? Mopar guys are the only ones that seem to make such a big deal about it all. I personally don't see the difference of taking a really nice 318 charger and changing all the R/T parts over vs buying the whole AMD cataloge. So you have part of the original firewall, is that enough to say its not a re body? How many of those new mustang bodies have original vins? It's a state to state thing as long as you have proof of ownership for both cars.

Is it morally correct, well that's up for debate. But legality wise it depends where it's done...
 
you can legally do it here if you possess both cars from which the vin tags come from and the one on the car you are fixing has been damaged beyond the legible point
 
People need to realize that unscrupulous people will find a way. Government workers are easy to fool or even bribe to get paperwork in order. So if you are very concerned with the rarity or originality of a car you better be an expert on all things about that car. Personally I don't care if a car is original, I won't pay any more for original or rare, it doesn't mean anything to me.
 
All it is is saving a set of numbers, not a car.

If it was just to have a car, put a set of 318 numbers on a dynacorn body, but that won't happen because of the profit issue.

Feds say one thing, states say another, just like med marijuana deal. Who do you want to bet on? If the feds decided it was an issue, goodbye to whatever you have, regardless of what the state says.
 
it is not illegal in all state. I seen plenty go across auctions stating the car was re bodied. The problem I have is the ones that hide that it was re bodied and try to pass it on as original.

From Justice.gov, a FEDERAL Courts website aimed at helping attorneys find YOU guilty of committing certain crimes:

1364

Altering or Removing Motor Vehicle Identification Numbers

Section 511(a) of Title 18 makes it a felony knowingly to remove, obliterate, tamper with, or alter an identification number for a road motor vehicle or a road motor vehicle part. Section 511(b) of Title 18 creates exceptions for certain persons who engage in lawful conduct that may result in removal or alteration of an identification number. The legislative history is abundantly clear that subsection (b) is not intended to create a loophole for the operators of "chop shops." See H.R.Rep. No. 1087 on H.R. 6257, 98th Congress, 2d Sess. 23-25 (1984).
Section 511(c) of Title 18 contains the definitions for "identification number," "motor vehicle," "motor vehicle demolisher," and "motor vehicle scrap processor." The term "identification number" means a number or symbol that is inscribed or affixed for purposes of identification under chapter 301 and Part C of subtitle VI of Title 49.
Title 49, Chapter 301 authorizes the Secretary of Transportation to promulgate motor vehicle safety standards. Pursuant to this authority, Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 115-Vehicle Identification Number (49 C.F.R. §§ 571.115 and 565.1 to 565.5) requires public VIN numbers on road vehicles (passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles, trucks, buses, trailers, and motorcycles). Part C of subtitle VI of Title 49 (49 U.S.C. § 33101 et seq.) authorizes the Secretary of Transportation to promulgate theft prevention (parts marking) standards. The parts marking regulations are set forth in 49 C.F.R. Part 541. The mandatory component identification requirement applies to certain high theft passenger car lines starting with model year 1987. In 1995, the theft prevention (parts marking) standard was expanded to include certain multipurpose passenger vehicles and certain non high theft lines beginning with model year 1997.

and....same site:
1376

Proving Violations of 18 U.S.C. § 2321

Section 2321 of Title 18 is a trafficking offense. The previous discussion relating to proving violations of 18 U.S.C. § 511 should be consulted. See this Manual at 1375. In the indictment for 18 U.S.C. § 2321 you may wish to use the false or altered VIN actually on the motor vehicle in order to help specify the motor vehicle which is the subject matter of the charge.
To establish a violation of 18 U.S.C. § 2321 the government must establish that: (1) the defendant acquired or possessed a road motor vehicle or component on which the vehicle identification number (VIN) or component identification number (after the component standard becomes effective) had been removed, obliterated, tampered with, or altered; (2) the identification number was one required by the United States Department of Transportation; (3) such removal, obliteration, tampering with, or alteration was done unlawfully; (4) the defendant was aware of the unlawful removal, obliteration, tampering with, or alteration; and (5) defendant had an intent to sell or otherwise dispose of the motor vehicle (or component part).
In most cases proof of the defendant's awareness of the stolen nature of the motor vehicle (or component) will satisfy the knowledge requirements. Also, the presence on the defendant's premises of several vehicles or numerous components lacking the proper numbers should help satisfy the knowledge and intent requirements.

By removing a plate and putting it on another vehicle, you are creating two vehicle with altered VIN tags and they will charge you twice with this crime.

If you have a custom-built vehicle, you go get a specially-assigned VIN tag, assigned by state. I've seen them dozens of times.

A re-bodied vehicle is not the same as replacing a VIN on a unibody vehicle.

Georgia specifically, via http://www.boss302.com/legal.htm:
Georgia:

In Martin v. State, 160 Ga. App. 275, 287 S.E.2d 244 (1981), the court found that a man who rebuilt and sold a vehicle with parts containing altered or removed VINs knowingly concealed or misrepresented the identity of the vehicle under Ga. Code Ann. § 68-9916(a). Since the Motor Vehicle Certificate of Title Act requires that the certificate of title for any vehicle that has been rebuilt, reconditioned, or remanufactured must so state on the face of the title, and the certificate of title that the man obtained for the vehicle did not disclose on its face that the vehicle had been rebuilt, the court found there was enough evidence to conclude that he knew the vehicle contained an altered or removed VIN.

The court in Ramey v. State, 239 Ga. App. 620, 521 S.E.2d 663 (1999), denied a directed verdict of acquittal when the court found enough circumstantial evidence that the car dealer sold the stolen vehicle knowing it had an altered VIN, which is prohibited under Ga. Code Ann. § 40-4-22(a). Because the car's true VIN was damaged and then concealed, and a false VIN plate applied loosely to the door, changes that a person in the business of buying and selling cars should have noticed, and the VIN stamped on the false plate and used by the dealer for the bill of sale did not match the car and could not have been assigned to that year vehicle, the court found sufficient evidence to show the dealer had guilty knowledge of the altered VIN.

From http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&rgn=div5&view=text&node=49:6.1.2.3.31&idno=49:

§ 565.13 General requirements.

(a) Each vehicle manufactured in one stage shall have a VIN that is assigned by the manufacturer. Each vehicle manufactured in more than one stage shall have a VIN assigned by the incomplete vehicle manufacturer. Vehicle alterers, as specified in 49 CFR 567.7, shall utilize the VIN assigned by the original manufacturer of the vehicle.


Restated one last time, in case you or anyone else missed it:
The only time you can legally remove a VIN, is if doing so is required to repair the vehicle, and then you must re-affix the original VIN tag in the original location.


If the VIN tag is damaged, you might be able to get a replacement from the manufacturer, and if so you WILL be required to send in the old one. Period. End of Story. Tell Your Friends: Federal law, nationwide. IF you replace a VIN tag in the course of rebuilding a car, it's gotta be inspected to be up n' up by state highway patrol or equivalent.



State law covers only one-off vehicles built in that state for assignment of non-federal VIN, by that state law concerning generation of a number associated with that vehicle.
 
you can legally do it here if you possess both cars from which the vin tags come from and the one on the car you are fixing has been damaged beyond the legible point

Not true, see above post.
 
Yeah, my drag Demon had the dash removed, no sticker on the door jam, back halved. No VIN number at all but maybe the rad support has some info. Guess no tag for me so I can tag / insure it, take it 5 country miles to the track, and race in King of the Street day.
 
In your long post you leave out the exceptions. Also in the description of how to prosecute this it says it needs to be to knowing conceal a stolen car. So if neither vin you are using is from a stolen car then you are talking about a grey area.
 
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