Don’t understand how pitman and idler arm work at spec torque settings?

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LovetheA's

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So I have all the front suspension set up under the car and I have to do final tightening on the tie rod ends, center link, pitman arm, idler arm, etc. I’m confused because I realize that the idler arm and pitman arm have set torques specs but I can’t see how the steering will operate without fighting against those arms set at torques specs. I mean I tightened down the idler arm top castle nut to about 40 ft lbs as per setting and it seems totally frozen to k frame. I tried moving it by pushing and pulling. No movement at all. Am I over thinking this? Is the manual steering box strong enough to overcome the torques specs of the pitman and idler arm? Maybe they are both supposed to not be movable by hand once torqued down and the steering box has no problem over coming this. I just want to make sure that they normally would feel frozen if moving by hand?
 
What year?
What car?
What modifications?


With the tires on and the front end off the ground, you should be able to push the rear of the tire in and pull the other side out to rotate the wheels Takes a bit of force.
 
Should be able to move the idler arm by hand. The ears should not be crushed down onto the arm. I tighten the nut just enough to remove any play.
 
your not tightening a nut against a bearing, the bearing is on the sleeve. you should just be tightening against a sleeve and it should torque pretty fast once snug. The taper only will go so deep on the receiver and then will tighten up so bith have no bolt torque on the bearing
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LovetheA's said:
So I have all the front suspension set up under the car and I have to do final tightening on the tie rod ends, center link, pitman arm, idler arm, etc. I’m confused because I realize that the idler arm and pitman arm have set torques specs but I can’t see how the steering will operate without fighting against those arms set at torques specs. I mean I tightened down the idler arm top castle nut to about 40 ft lbs as per setting and it seems totally frozen to k frame. I tried moving it by pushing and pulling. No movement at all. Am I over thinking this? Is the manual steering box strong enough to overcome the torques specs of the pitman and idler arm? Maybe they are both supposed to not be movable by hand once torqued down and the steering box has no problem over coming this. I just want to make sure that they normally would feel frozen if moving by hand?
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they are all the same what matters is nothing all with stand ered steering is good . power steering will help. uses the engine not stsanard sterring as old guies
 
Pitman really does not come into the equation! The idler maybe! But as previously mentioned it is on a bearing if done correctly. Torque all to specs!
 
Maybe your idler arm is bad. I bought a Moog idler for my 68 from Rockauto. The pin wasn't installed into the bearing correctly so Rockauto sent me a replacement. That one had the bearing seized right out of the box. I was able to work it back and forth and it freed up some but it's still pretty tight. If you bought a Moog, maybe try a different brand.

As previously stated, 67 uses a different idler arm. Can you post a picture of the idler you have and the k-member? Rockauto doesn't even list an idler for a 67.
 
pishta said:
your not tightening a nut against a bearing, the bearing is on the sleeve. you should just be tightening against a sleeve and it should torque pretty fast once snug. The taper only will go so deep on the receiver and then will tighten up so bith have no bolt torque on the bearing
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^^THIS is true "so far" but this might be right where the trouble lies. Some aftermarket designs depend on washers for spacers, and if they are missing, sequenced incorrectly, etc, OR JUST A CHEAP POOR DESIGN it will be possible to over-tighten the bolt and bind up the pivot point. I have one of these, don't remember who made it. There is no literature, directions. It appears to me that it depends on a lock nut to maintain the proper clearance for the pivot. REALLY poor design and NOT AT ALL like the factory design

On a side note, replacement parts from so called brand name suppliers are not what they used to be

WE NEED PHOTOS. CLEAR PHOTOS. and we need YEAR MAKE AND MODEL what it is you are working on.
 
The tighter the bolt the better. Just don't strip it. If it is binding you have a stiff or incorrect arm. The arm itself should not bind on the K-member. The k-member ears should be toghtened firmly against the sleeve the it spins free on.. It this the style arm you are using. The washers , foam seals and sleeve do not move. Only the iron arm

Steve 123 - Copy.JPG
 
This thread is useless without pictures :BangHead:
 
67 was a double taper, IIRC it was a one year only deal. $$, same deal: the taper will only go so far in then torque up fast, maybe 1/4 turn once seated. I would not suspect that they could be moved by hand once installed as they are tight from the factory. The steering wheel generates >16 lb/ft of torque at the pitman arm with very little turning torque of the wheel itself due to reduction in the steering box. Power steering generates huge torque. Tighten to spec and see if the steering wheel can operate. Only thing we can suggest with given info.
 
No, they should not be bound-up. Something is wrong. It should be pretty easy to see where/why it is binding. The linkages should be "stiff" when new, but also not take a lot of force to move. If that makes any sense.
 
Depending on year and model, of course, there could also be a problem with either the K-member bracket or drag link tapered holes. I've seen some tapered holes that had loose components in them resulting in egg shaped and/or totally worn out holes where if you totally tightened up the nut(s) it would bind the steering. When all components are good, correct, and torqued to specs, you should be able to move them by hand.
 
Everyone thanks a ton for chiming in. I apologize for being MIA. I was moving into my new house this weekend. Right now I’m a walking zombie but still have to wrench on the car to get it finished. It’s in my old condo and the closing is on the 15th and I want to drive it out. Here are a series of shots of my suspension. Mind you everything is put together but not torqued yet because of my concerns I mentioned. I think everything looks correct? The car is a factory 67 gts 4 speed with factory k frame and idler arm bolts up in one spot only.

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Then you are unlucky enough to have the "one year only" idler arm with the tapered stud mount. If it won't move when installed, either one or both studs are made wrong, or the hole at one end is hogged out allowing it to go too deep, or the idler is just plain defective.
 
So I removed the idler arm and looked at the hole where it bolts to the k frame. The hole looks pristine and perfectly round. I’m thinking that with the 67 k frame maybe the idler arm should be a little tighter than on the 68 and up k frame. I also held onto my old idler arm and compared it to the new one from PST. Actually the bolt through swivel point on the new older arm to the left in photo is smaller by .030 thousands as compared to the older idler arm to the right. Therefore I can’t see it not working just as well as the older one? I guess I can put in the new one tighten until I think it is 40 ft lbs hook up steering and see with my 16:1 manual box if I can turn the wheels. Car is up on jack stands. Live and learn!
Carl

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LovetheA's said:
So I removed the idler arm and looked at the hole where it bolts to the k frame. The hole looks pristine and perfectly round. I’m thinking that with the 67 k frame maybe the idler arm should be a little tighter than on the 68 and up k frame. I also held onto my old idler arm and compared it to the new one from PST. Actually the bolt through swivel point on the new older arm to the left in photo is smaller by .030 thousands as compared to the older idler arm to the right. Therefore I can’t see it not working just as well as the older one? I guess I can put in the new one tighten until I think it is 40 ft lbs hook up steering and see with my 16:1 manual box if I can turn the wheels. Car is up on jack stands. Live and learn!
Carl

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Bolt just the idler to the K-member and see if you can rotate it. Then remove it and bolt the other end to the drag link and try the same thing. Being new, both joints will be stiff, but, you should be able to turn them by hand. Same thing on the drag link connection with the pitman arm.
 
Is the hole on the k frame tapered?

Is the idler hitting the k frame where the felt washer is?

In the last 2 years replaced my 67 idler arm with one that looks just like yours, don't recall where I bought it.

I had to put a washer in the nut side of the k frame mount so the castle nut would line up with the cotter pin hole.

I noticed that after the new idler was in, the stearing would not return to center without help (23:1 manual OEM gear box) after a few hundred miles it is returning just fine.
 
LovetheA's said:
Actually the bolt through swivel point on the new older arm to the left in photo is smaller by .030 thousands as compared to the older idler arm to the right. Therefore I can’t see it not working just as well as the older one? I guess I can put in the new one tighten until I think it is 40 ft lbs hook up steering and see with my 16:1 manual box if I can turn the wheels. Car is up on jack stands. Live and learn!
Carl

View attachment 1715543601

View attachment 1715543602
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The new idler may be out of tolerance. The simple answer here, is put the new idler on first the K, and then the pitman, and see if the taper allows it to tighten up enough that the main part of the idler is dragging on the bracket, or on the center link. And it should not be Try with the seals removed.

More and more, we are running into parts that are out of spec
 
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