Ducktail spoiler

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So is this 70 T/A spoiler
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Herb's Parts - Mopar Restoration and Performance

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or this Camaro spoiler... OER 3974538 RearSpoiler, 1970-73 Camaro Standard | eBay

the same as on the Duster in this picture?

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Here's the Camaro spoiler. It's a little different. Not much. A lot cheaper and it bolts on from the bottom instead of those stupid holes on the outside. The two cars are similar size, so I bet the spoilers are pretty close. You might ask for measurements for both and see. People have used those Camaro spoilers on all kinds of other cars.

1970-1973 Camaro Z28 Rear Deck Trunk Lid 1 piece Spoiler OER New | eBay

The '70-73 Camaro spoilers are not a "little different", they're completely different. They're wider and shorter than the DC spoiler, and mount completely different. The curve on the underside is not the same as the curve of a Duster trunk. I have a family member with a '69 Camaro, after measuring and inspecting the spoiler on his car there's no way I'd try to mount one on a Duster. There are several areas that just wouldn't work well, the Duster trunk lid has a lot of contour to it. It's not worth the headache.


A '70 T/A spoiler is like a foot wider. And intended for a nearly flat trunk lid too, which the Duster's is not. The Camaro spoiler is a bad choice as well, as I mentioned above while the general look is similar, nothing is the same and the measurements would not work well.

I bought one of the "showcarsrob" ducktail spoilers on eBay a couple years back. No issues with his business, the shipping wasn't lightening fast but it was coming from Canadia to the US so I wasn't too worried.

The part itself is a pretty good likeness of the DC piece. Better than the other seller on eBay that makes them without the dimples for the mounting holes (CNSmoparparts). The biggest difference I noticed between the showcarsrob piece and the original is that the showcarsrob spoiler is slightly narrower, there's about a 1/4" of trunk lid showing on either side of the spoiler that isn't there on the original DC spoilers. Not a tragedy, very few people would probably even notice. If you were really picky it would be pretty easy to add some fiberglass. It's not the whole width of the spoiler that's short, the showcarsrob spoiler looks like it was cut off a little too early- it has a square shoulder the last 1/4" or so on the edge, where the DC spoiler tapers smoothly all the way down to the edge. I don't think the mold was pulled from the inside of the DC spoiler because the rest of the dimensions match, might have just been an issue with how he finished the inside of his production mold on the corners.

I actually have 4 versions of the DC style ducktail spoiler. One original DC spoiler, one from showcarsrob, one from CNSmoparparts (the one without the screw dimples), and one from the now defunct MAS fiberglass. Of the 4, the best version is the one made by MAS. It's fiberglass, but it matches the original width, height and contour of the original DC spoiler. It's also much sturdier than the original DC piece. Honestly, the original DC spoilers were made from a thin ABS plastic, and although the look good, they're pretty flimsy and prone to cracking at the attaching points. They were not intended to be screwed down, the originals actually came with a plastic push-pin type fastener. Using screws usually cracks the edge of the spoiler. When I finally got my hands on an original DC spoiler I was kinda disappointed. The showcarsrob spoiler is the only one I know of being currently produced. MAS is out of business, although some of their stuff is floating around. The CNSmoparparts spoiler is a piece of trash. It doesn't have the dimpled mounting pockets like the original, and the fiberglass would take a ton of work to make look decent on the car. Of the 4 it's the only one I regret buying. The MAS spoiler is the best. The showcarsrob spoiler would take a little work, but pretty much every fiberglass part I've ever seen would take a little work before paint.
 
72blu, that was a Great summery of what is out there in the aftermarket. Thank you!

And ... since you have/had so many.... please PM me if you want to let go of one in your arsenal.
 
Does anything lay underneath that fiberglass spoiler- seems like it would not lay flat and scratch your paint. Is there a gasket?
 
Does anything lay underneath that fiberglass spoiler- seems like it would not lay flat and scratch your paint. Is there a gasket?

No gasket. I don’t think they were worried about the paint underneath considering you have to drill like a dozen holes in the trunk lid just to mount it.
 
I like the idea of lightweight plastic and plastic rivets.

Mother Mopar in your face.. like headers in the trunk or lift-off hoods.
Gotta love it..
 
Part of the idea might have been to not need any changes to the trunk lid lift springs. The ABS spoiler is quite a bit lighter than even the MAS fiberglass version, which has fairly thin fiberglass. Or maybe DC was just cheap and the ABS was the best way to mass produce, hard to say.

I read somewhere that they did actually test the ducktail spoiler on a road course, and that the use of the spoiler resulted in a 10mph increase in the straight away top speed. I’ve never seen any data for that though, so who knows. I don’t remember where I read it at this point either, and honestly a 10mph increase in a straight away seems pretty optimistic. Probably just magazine bench racing.
 
No gasket. I don’t think they were worried about the paint underneath considering you have to drill like a dozen holes in the trunk lid just to mount it.

I can't see drilling an original trunk for a less than perfect reproduction spoiler. Is there anyway to mount without drilling the holes? Is there enough surface area between the fiberglass and the trunk lid for 3M trim adhesive? I realize that you'll still have dimples...

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I read somewhere that they did actually test the ducktail spoiler on a road course, and that the use of the spoiler resulted in a 10mph increase in the straight away top speed. I’ve never seen any data for that though, so who knows. I don’t remember where I read it at this point either, and honestly a 10mph increase in a straight away seems pretty optimistic. Probably just magazine bench racing.

Nice story but I agree with your incredulity. Unless the spoiler somehow disrupts a major spot of aerodynamic turbulence, top end speed would only be hurt by an effective spoiler. You're exchanging drag for downforce.

So...a really effective spoiler might improve top speed by improving stability enough to affect driver confidence...or perhaps it could allow the driver to get on the throttle sooner from the previous corner? Unlikely though.
 
I can't see drilling an original trunk for a less than perfect reproduction spoiler. Is there anyway to mount without drilling the holes? Is there enough surface area between the fiberglass and the trunk lid for 3M trim adhesive? I realize that you'll still have dimples...

Nice story but I agree with your incredulity. Unless the spoiler somehow disrupts a major spot of aerodynamic turbulence, top end speed would only be hurt by an effective spoiler. You're exchanging drag for downforce.

So...a really effective spoiler might improve top speed by improving stability enough to affect driver confidence...or perhaps it could allow the driver to get on the throttle sooner from the previous corner? Unlikely though.

There's really nothing on the backside of the spoilers to mount them, the spoilers are hollow and even the fiberglass ones are basically just a single layer of fiberglass. If you're handy with fiberglass you could probably add some kind of additional bracing or mounting tabs on the backside of the spoiler. But as is there's nothing under there to attach them with trim adhesive or 3m tape. The only exception is the CNS spoiler, it has straps on the bottom for mounting it because it doesn't have the screw pockets. But that was is intended to be mounted with a couple of lag bolts. No kidding. That's what came with it. There still wouldn't be enough surface area for tape or adhesive.

As for the story, I wish I could remember where I saw it. I probably still have the info somewhere, but I could spend hours looking and not find it. It was completely anecdotal, like I said the entire thing came down to- they ran it at the track and got a 10mph increase in top speed on the straights. Which could mean anything as far as why they managed to do that, could just be the "dumbo" effect, driver thought the spoiler would work better and he drove faster. Just installed some "matched tires" there days of thunder, haul ***.

Now, I kinda think that's probably not the case either. In general you're right, spoilers add downforce which adds drag, slowing the car on the top end but improving traction. Problem is, these cars are not aerodynamically well designed. So it's VERY likely the slipstream could be improved by a small spoiler like the DC ducktail. All you need for evidence is the Superbird's and Daytona's. First Nascar to hit 200mph, rear wing so big you could flip it over and use it for an ultralight aircraft. How the heck did that giant spoiler make the car faster? The original body was so aerodynamically unstable that the giant wing represented a significant improvement.
 
The huge vertical supports did a lot more to keep the car pointed straight than the wing itself. Plus, don't forget that very aerodynamic nose cone on the winged cars.
 
The huge vertical supports did a lot more to keep the car pointed straight than the wing itself. Plus, don't forget that very aerodynamic nose cone on the winged cars.

Maybe so. There are still people out there that argue that the entire reason for the large rear supports was just so the trunk would open on the production cars.

Either way, those cars weren't exactly aerodynamics at it's finest. If you have to make a brick go 200mph that's how you do it, but if you were starting from a clean slate you wouldn't use a brick.

Daytona and SuperBird
Nose = front downforce
Wing = adjustable rear downforce and a huge gain in sideforce.

True, but remember also that the DC spoiler had a front counterpart as well. The ducktail was just half of the equation, there was a front spoiler too.
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Same deal for the T/A and AAR cars too. If I had to guess, I would say that Ma Mopar definitely did testing for the front and rear spoilers for the T/A and AAR cars. The DC spoilers were probably just based off of that design, with little to no testing. At least based on the info that's out there, which isn't much. Case in point, I don't recall any mention of the front spoiler in the info I read on the ducktail. There may have been a front spoiler on the car they "tested" too, which could have made a difference. Especially considering one of the main issues with these cars is the large indented grill area that causes front end lift at higher speeds.

For me I think the take home should be that the spoilers are mostly just a cosmetic addition. I certainly wouldn't expect a huge aerodynamic improvement, even if the general theory is sound. Aerodynamics isn't a subject that does well with generalities, what works on one body style make be completely wrong for another, it's a very specific deal. Reducing air under the car is generally good, and a spoiler on a car with the rear end shape of a Demon/Duster/Dart Sport is generally a good idea, but how the DC spoilers work in reality may be different.
 
Yeah, those vertical stabilizers, that look like a smaller version of what you see on an F-14, were just there so the wing would clear the trunk lid. That's what Mopar was telling everyone. Uh-huh. Those things are wings, turned sideways!
 
The fact it is a Direct Connection part makes it so very cool.

That's the plan 1974-77 vintage parts for my Bracket Duster.

All old school parts...
Plain Centerlines (can't find SuperTricks or Fly)
L4DB
Cal Custom valve covers (better than the Chrome DC)
Stewart Warner
Moroso
B&M
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So.. check this out. Camaro? DC copy? Hmmm.....
View attachment 1715401019

Big tired mopar looks great, spoiler looks like a camaro afterthought !
 
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