WSUTARD
Well-Known Member
Here is my passenger side. Looks like I need to space out a few.
Economical replacement rocker arm set?
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WSUTARD
Well-Known Member
spaced them out and no change. Frustrating.
j par
Well-Known Member
Well I'm glad I caught up with this thread because buying adjustable rockers and putting in solid lifters and custom pushrods is just going to be expensive and LOL more noisy!
273 adjustable rockers are going to be just like any other adjustable rocker as far as geometry goes. One isn't going to need a longer pushrod than the other.
Going to ask a question here and let me tell you first that I have not read this entire thread so it could have been covered a million times, but have you drove this car lately do you drive it a lot or are you just kind of tuning on it here getting a ticking sound?
273 adjustable rockers are going to be just like any other adjustable rocker as far as geometry goes. One isn't going to need a longer pushrod than the other.
Going to ask a question here and let me tell you first that I have not read this entire thread so it could have been covered a million times, but have you drove this car lately do you drive it a lot or are you just kind of tuning on it here getting a ticking sound?
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
A hydraulic lifter pushrod is shorter than a solid lifter pushrod. They ain't the same.
j par
Well-Known Member
No s*** Sherlock. Did say they were the same?
rustycowll69
Well-Known Member
I know I've mentioned it before, Eric. But before you spend more money and tear the intake back off, again, have you had it running in the dark to look for errant sparks. Humor me. It doesn't cost a thing, but a few minutes time, and you won't even get your hands dirty.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
One isn't going to need a longer pushrod than the other.
If you are talking about adjustable to nonadjustable rockers, then they are different.
If you are talking about adjustable rockers with either hydraulic or solid lifters, then it's still a different pushrod. That's why there are 3 off the shelf part numbers for pushrod. One for nonadjustable rockers and two for adjustable rockers.
Unless you have corrected for geometry...then the length varies.
j par
Well-Known Member
Correct...
j par
Well-Known Member
With the rockers being lose like in your video, there isn't ANY preload on the lifter. The retainer is taking the load ie, holding the lifter together.
I had the same problem. PUT in all new push rods, no change. I could have tried new rockers, or sized each pushrod,or just got pushrods that are .020 longer, or, or, seemed like a pain in the *** and a bunch of guessing . I opted for adjustable rockers, problem solved.
As others have mentioned, the cam could be on its way out? Even with proper break in, the cam could be going tits Up?
I had the same problem. PUT in all new push rods, no change. I could have tried new rockers, or sized each pushrod,or just got pushrods that are .020 longer, or, or, seemed like a pain in the *** and a bunch of guessing . I opted for adjustable rockers, problem solved.
As others have mentioned, the cam could be on its way out? Even with proper break in, the cam could be going tits Up?
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
Understood. but you can't measure or see the preload properly through those holes.
You may want to try one thing and this is just a thought, I have not tried it myself and it may be a total failure. Take a piece of small diameter gas welding rod (3/32") for steel welding, or some other stiff, malleable wire, and turn a very short 90 degree bend in 1 end, < 1/8" long, and flatten/file the tip to a .020" thick flat. The idea is to make a go/no-go gauge that you can slip down through the hole by the pushrod, and has the 90 tip short enough that it can fit between the pushrod and lifter's retainer. (THAT is the trick...) Then see if you can slip the tip sideways and if it will go into the gap between retainer and piston. This will tell you if that preload is at least .020". This would need to be done on each lifter when the lifter is on the heel of the associated lobe and after then engine is warmed up.
If you know you have adequate preload, then the likely issue is a bad lifter or a bad lobe.
If the preload is not adequate, then it may some combination of thicker head gaskets, a low base circle on the new cam, height variations from standard on the new lifters, or pushrod or rocker wear. It maybe time for new pushrods.... in which case, you may as well as do the 273 rockers.
But that will be a waste of good $$ if the preload is good at this time, and all the problem is a bad new lifter. So IMHO take your choice: properly measure preload, or just bypass that question and do the new rockers with the risk that you still have a bad lifter or lobe.
It's difficult enough to check preload with the intake off, I can't imagine how much fun it would be with it on.
Not a fan of the non adjustable at all. Adjusting preload on used components is a pain in the ***.
With adjustable rockers, the preload is much more accurate and consistent, and, if a lifter or lobe goes bad you know exactly where to look for the problem.
Not a fan of the non adjustable at all. Adjusting preload on used components is a pain in the ***.
With adjustable rockers, the preload is much more accurate and consistent, and, if a lifter or lobe goes bad you know exactly where to look for the problem.
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WSUTARD
Well-Known Member
The cam is a new XE 268
The lifters are new Comp 822-16 that came with the cam
The pushrods measure out to stock length, 7.5". I believe that the pushrods were replaced when the previous owner redid the engine, so about 4-5 years ago.
The head gasket is Mr Gasket 1121G at .028 which is about .01 less than my previous Felpro gaskets.
If I go with adjustable I am under the impression that I have to change not only the rockers but also the push rods AND the lifters. That would be a minimum of a $400 proposition.
If I could use the 822-16 lifters with adjustable rockers then I think my next step would be to change out the lifters, as its only about $100.
The lifters are new Comp 822-16 that came with the cam
The pushrods measure out to stock length, 7.5". I believe that the pushrods were replaced when the previous owner redid the engine, so about 4-5 years ago.
The head gasket is Mr Gasket 1121G at .028 which is about .01 less than my previous Felpro gaskets.
If I go with adjustable I am under the impression that I have to change not only the rockers but also the push rods AND the lifters. That would be a minimum of a $400 proposition.
If I could use the 822-16 lifters with adjustable rockers then I think my next step would be to change out the lifters, as its only about $100.
rustycowll69
Well-Known Member
I see no reason why you HAVE to change lifters if you go to adjustable rockers.
WSUTARD
Well-Known Member
I thought you had to have solid lifters with adjustable rockers.
rustycowll69
Well-Known Member
negative. that is precisely how the factory 70 340 six packs came: hydraulic lifters with adjustable rockers.
WSUTARD
Well-Known Member
OK, is there a better lifter set to purchase than the Comp Camp 822-16?
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
As long as the lifters aren't going flat I'd leave them in there.
You can use adjustable rockers with hydraulic lifters as mentioned above. You just have to buy pushrods.
WSUTARD
Well-Known Member
I think the thinking was that replacing the lifters would confirm if I have bad lifters or not.
rustycowll69
Well-Known Member
I haven't built any engines for over 10 years. I remember they used to say there were only a few hydraulic lifter manufacturer's in the US. Maybe even less today. I don't know that you got bad lifters, or that anybody makes better lifters. Did you clean the lifters with mineral spirits before you installed them?
WSUTARD
Well-Known Member
I cant say I remember doing that. I believe I wiped them off with some brake clean, but I'm not 100%.
rustycowll69
Well-Known Member
yes, you could clean or replace the lifters you suspect are "soft". You don't necessarily need to replace all the lifters. In either case, you're going to have to figure out your preload.
rustycowll69
Well-Known Member
I think the comp intallation instructions somebody posted mentioned cleaning them first in mineral spirits, then soaking them in clean oil, then applying break-in lube to the cam and lifter face.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
Only if one or 2 were bad and were leaking down excessively and would not hold pressure.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
Try this first:
Run the engine for 10-15 minutes. This will pump up the lifters if they are going to pump up. Then shut it off and quickly pull the left valve cover. Rotate the engine so that the problem cylinders are at TDC, firing. This puts the lifters on those cylinders on the lobe heel. (Look at the rotor pointing to wee which cylinder is firing.) Then push down on the lifter/pushrod/rocker and see if either lifter is soft. Don't do the side to side movement thing; that tells you nothing. Push straight down on the rocker/pushrod/lifter and see if there is any give. They should be rock solid.
This is a fairly reliable test (but not 100% guaranteed) to find a lifter with a bad check valve.
As for better lifters, I dunno anymore. I doubt that Comps are particularly good; they are cheap ones. We have had one new Crane lifter go soft in just 1k miles so those are suspect. Johnsons have been said to be good, but I have read of recent issues with them too.
One thing I would look for in lifter is to find one that do not have the oil hole in the middle of the top of the piston. I am not sure those are made anymore, but that hole is for oiling up through the pushrods, which the LA small blocks don't need. It is just another place where oil can leak out when running, if the pushrod balls don't fit tightly in the cups of the pistons and seal off that hole.
Based on this, I would not hesitate to remove the lifter for cylinders 5 & 7 and disassemble them and clean them and look for grit or anomolies. Or, just buy 4 of the Comp lifters and put them into cylinders 5 & 7 (or how many cylinders are candidates for this lifter rattle) and follow the break-in process again.
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