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I have seen countless threads on EFI issues .
and many many are user error you find out a ways down the road. just like many other threads about product issues on forums and facebook groups. you never truly know what the installer did. not saying that people don't get a lemon here and there but man there are some real hacks out there.
The assumption being anyone at Car Craft actually knew how to tune a carb.
So a poor performing carb can’t be user error? I can make the argument that that’s 99.99% of the reason why carbs don’t perform.
That would be my point . The complexity for the average guy is just too much in many applications . If you already have somewhat of a grasp on carb circuits why dive into FI. This new carb allows so many adjustments with out disassembling the carb tuning should be much easier. I have considered FI for a future bigblock motorhome build due to enhanced low rpm performance and MPG but I am leary of having an issue when I am 80+ miles away from any services. Which is easy to do here in Idaho. Hell 200 miles away often .
ha, my two eldest boys are all about FI. I keep telling them if you can't tune a carb, you aint tuning FI. They have all sorts of responses about sensors and automatic tuning etc. phht... Both can be crap and both can be awesome, if you know what you're doing.
following directions isn't really that complex.
I have no problem with either, just prefer carbs for what I do. I just find it funny how time and time again people make statements about the future of the hobby and then the manufacturers come out and prove them wrong. I say the more options the better, the more parts the better, it means hot rodding is alive and well.
I'm sure YOU know, but Holley's return rate is outta this world. Both with carburetors and EFI.
They put efi on then have problems, then it's old trusty carb to the rescue.
A guy I know with a holley sniper efi on his amx the injector would hang open and drain into the cylinders, well engine has to come apart now and guess what? He's going back to a carb because parts for the efi were on backorder.
Or they get their FI tuned and give away their carburetors..... it works both ways. Both have their place. Both can give problems... JW
Watched a Camaro burn to the ground because of a hung Float. What's your point? JW
ummmm... where did i say that? like i ststed there are a ton of hacks out there. just follow various forms and facebook groups.. the people that have issues are the ones ya hear from the most. doesn't matter what they are working on. front end, carb, eft, water bpump, brakes...etc..etc...etc there is so much user error out ther its unreal.. peopel that shouldn't even be turning a wrench on their car to begin with... what i do know though is that a carb is never perfectly tuned day in and day out.. so many things go into the perfect tune which you know.. now EFI will adjust to all that many times a second and be in tune and in tune again tomorrow no matter what the conditions are.
Point is you can get parts pretty much anywhere and a stuck float can be caught right away if you're not stupid. Injector does it and you won't notice it and wash down the cylinders.
For me, the biggest difference is that my efi cars don't stink up the garage, and changing the tune doesn't result in me smelling like gas. I can change my tune at a stoplight if I feel it's needed, and I do it often as I fine tune things. Funny thing is, I've learned more about good engine operation from fiddling with efi tuning for a year than I did in a decade tweaking carbs (but I'm also an amateur, not a racer, and not a dyno wiz either..). It's just so easy to A/B test things with an efi system that I do it frequently. Especially with timing! The only time I need to open the hood is when I need to reset the idle screw on occasion.
What you said was the majority of issues with EFI is the end user. It’s the same with a carb. One big drawback to the carb is ALL pump fuel is now blended for EFI so it’s one more thing that needs to be accounted for in carb tuning. If you don’t know that, or ignore it you’ll never get the tune up right. EFI isn’t the world beater you’d like us to believe. The reason why Edelbrock even released this carb was to fill the market of guys moving back to carbs. And in so doing, they made the carb with a 3rd circuit that no one needs unless you are running two 850’s on 265 inches. Plus they added a 4th just to keep the marketing department happy. The argument will continue because the EFI guys think anyone over the age of 30 is too stupid to understand and tune EFI. That’s not it at all.
Aperently it is by the number of help threads I have read. Of course there are just as many help threads with carbs. The point is both solutions can be tuned to work well but carb issues are easier to diagnose because they are mechanical not electrical . Assuming the carb was running k before the malfunction . I want to replace my old KTM 300 dirtbike but the new models are EFI and have had a few issues . I like the fact that I can tear down my Keihn carb on the trail and clean out the pilot jet etc... The only bike I have ever had to tow was an EFI bike . Yes the new EFI bikes get better mileage and have smoother powerbands but the carbs are bulletproof other than a clogged pilot now and then IF they left sitting with old fuel for long periods of time. Which I am sure is worse on an EFI bike. Hell when I bought my BMW F650 Dakar it only had 800 miles on it but needed a new 400$ fuel pump to get it running. And sometimes it gets these funny glitches where it want to idle erratically until I shut it off and cycle the key then restart. My Ram 1500 would go into limp mode if I used cruise for any length of time . I would have to restart it and continue on until it did it again . Took 3 dealers to figure it out . Had a BMW E30 that started revving uo and down at idle due to a bad air idle motor . Just had to replace a knock sensor on my daughters CRV. Those are just the issues I have had with FI that I can recall .
Wish the guy was still alive and you could have called him stupid and would have watched the fun. Nope, you're in the group stuck on Carburetors... happy for you.... JW
How did a hung float burn his car down ? It should have just killed the engine . This is a sincere question not sarcasm.
Ha, this thread is the same as the car shows. The people keeping the carb business alive are people that don't trust or understand fuel injection. Carburetors have been around for 100 years and at this point, we've probably learned all we're ever going to learn about them. No matter that there hasn't been a carb on a new car in 40 years... I know I said earlier that it was kinda cool and all but when you really think abut it, for Edelbrock to put so much time and effort into developing this carb it seems kind of silly and not very forward thinking. I really believe it's because they got left behind in the EFI race. More adjustbaility is fine for the small segment of the market that wants their tune to be razor sharp but if that's what people want then why stick with a carb? And even for the majority of the guys that "just want to get in their car and go" what's the point of having all this adjustability? I can't see drag racers giving up a two circuit Dominator for one of these. Every carb I've ever had ran different on different days, that's just science. Carbs are at the mercy of the ambient air no matter what gadgetry you attach to it. Why do guys have weather stations at the track? Atmosphere changes rapidly and the mixer has to adjust or it won't perform as expected. Conversely, even though it seems like it's being marketed as such, EFI is NOT a magic bullet. There are instances where a carburetor will outperform EFI but it's a small margin and as time goes on and smart racers spend more time learning about it the gap closes. Many of the really fast cars at the drags these days are injected and tuned with a laptop. Agree with Joe that most of the time these things fail because of user error. There is a thread on the other "forBodiesOnly" site now where a guy is having problems with his Sniper. It started blowing black smoke and running rough. He keeps replacing 02 sensors and Orange box ignition modules as if those are what are causing the problem. I'm not even sure how he gets the the thing to run with an orange box but it's not worth the time to delve into that. Regardless, 02 sensors generally never fail but this guy had one take a dump within a few miles? Then he goes on to say XYZ data number is way off and ABC sensor number is pegged and does not understand why his timing is locked out in the software. But you know the 02 is bad? Obviously the problem is beyond a bad 02 and I said so but all the other replies in the thread are agreeing the 02 is culprit. So he takes the 02 out, drives the car around the block and comes back to the thread posting it ran fine so it has to be the 02. You can only help so much. I would not want to be a Holley tech line employee! Carbs are fun, I still mess with them but lately it's been on other people's stuff that I help with. I'll never get rid of my carb stuff completely, I have way too much time and money invested in them to abandon it forever. I probably wouldn't buy this Edelbrock carb though. Tuning EFI really is a similar process, it's just a different method of viewing the information. Some people just won't trust computers and electronics and will never see the benefits of EFI even though it could be a good thing.
I have had both happen to me. My Dart sunk a float on my tunnel ram. It was running rough but I babbied it and then while foot breaking it at a red light to keep it running I watched the oil psi drop to zero. A customers car. The brand new Holley sniper EFI. injector hung open. Debris in the fuel said Holley. I built the car. The lines were clean and the filters were installed correctly. The tank was new and flushed. So yeah. Do what you want beacuse both can and will fuck you. Id take one. No way in hell im buying one let alone two just to test but down the road when they are considered "junk" by folks ill try em out.
What I dont under stand is who this is marked at? Im a Holley guy. So it kinda enterests me. @j par My eddlebrock brother from another mother. What say you? You are an Eddy guy. Would you buy this (or two) beacuse for us tunnel ram guys it aint just one. We gotta buy two.
If I was going to buy that I would just buy the real thing and buy it Holley's... I'm happy with my street demons they have a mix of Edelbrock and Holley parts to make a thermal quad....