Edelbrock aluminum heads 60179 or 60779?

rumblefish360

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If your 340 has he pop up positive deck pistons, you need the head that has the relief for it in the chamber. Or a very thick gasket to assure that the piston doesn’t hit the cylinder head.

I JUST! 2 days ago got my “179” Edelbrock heads. The work done was pretty good. Valves were not loose and the valve job was typical. The valves sat proud as they should and there was no “Lip” next to the valve to stop air flow at low lifts. I mic’s the spring heights and the all exhausts needed .015 shims. The intakes were good. All within .007 or less. 2 dead on 1.800.

These are going on a 360 for my sons truck.

030E5B7A-EE65-4185-9692-7058B42D198E.jpeg
 

rumblefish360

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The KB-107 is a 360 slug that is as you described while the replacement 340 KB slug has a small dome.
 

crackedback

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Buy the head that does not have the relief 60779 and set the quench with head gasket thickness. That includes pistons that are out of the deck, do it with the gasket.

Not a fan of the open chamber nonsense.
 

rumblefish360

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Use clay if you follow crackedback, you need to know exactly what the clearance is.
 

72bluNblu

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Sorry. KB 243. Flat with two valve reliefs. So the 60779 should do me fine.

The KB 243's will be above the deck, just like the original pistons.

I have them in the '68 340 in my Duster, they're .018" proud of the deck and it was left at the stock height. If you run the closed chamber Eddy's you'll need to use a thick head gasket to get your piston clearance. I run open chamber 308 heads on mine, I had them ported and cut so the chambers were 65cc's.
 

plumkrazee70

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The KB 243's will be above the deck, just like the original pistons.

I have them in the '68 340 in my Duster, they're .018" proud of the deck and it was left at the stock height. If you run the closed chamber Eddy's you'll need to use a thick head gasket to get your piston clearance. I run open chamber 308 heads on mine, I had them ported and cut so the chambers were 65cc's.

Ok. I am planning on using the Edelbrock head gasket kit which is .050 compressed.
 

plumkrazee70

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what are the specs and plan for your 340?

Well it's a long story, but its been rebuilt with the following:

Here is what I know on about the engine. I just put it together to get it running about 10 years ago.

68 340 .040 over
KB hypers 243
Forged crank stock
Stock rods
CRS 268H-10 cam
Air Gap
Stock heads 2.02 intake
273 adj rockers
MSD ign without vac advance
Fitech EFI

The motor is out now to make the 4 speed install easier. I decided I am going to copy the Edelbrock top end package. It made good power and I already have the intake. I know some people aren't crazy about their can choice, but I keep going back to the fact that all the parts together were matched to make the power they described. I am looking for a fun street car. I hav 4.10 gears and the 4 speed is being rebuilt with Passon Hemi OD kit.

Edelbrock 2049: RPM Power Package Top End Kit for 1967-1991 Small Block Chrysler 340-418 - JEGS High Performance
 
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furrystump

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For me I would go closed chamber and adjust with head gasket. They need a different head bolt/stud kit. Also alternator might need some fitting and depends on you exhaust. Stock 340 manifolds can hit the driver side head. Nothing insurmountable, you just buy a header flange and sandwich it between the manifold and the head. Also the valve springs on those heads are marginal for the lift they say they are good for. It you are close, with quick ramps, you might want an upgraded spring.
 

plumkrazee70

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For me I would go closed chamber and adjust with head gasket. They need a different head bolt/stud kit. Also alternator might need so fitting and depends on you exhaust. Stock 340 manifolds can hit the driver side head. Nothing insurmountable, you just buy a header flange and sandwich it between the manifold and the head. Also the valve springs on those heads are marginal for the lift they say they are good for. It you are close, with quick ramps, you might want an upgraded spring.

I have Doug's headers and am planning on their matching cam.
 

furrystump

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I had to modify my alternator bracket adjustment arm a bit to bring the alternator up higher to clear. I just ran a longer belt. If you have issues, don’t grind on the head.
 

plumkrazee70

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Ok, back to it. I got the old iron heads off the 340 and measured the piston to deck clearance and sure enough they are .018 out the hole.

I got the closed chamber Edelbrock heads here, so now onto which head gasket to run and which cam.

Since I have the engine down this far, I have the opportunity to upgrade my cam. My dad has an unused cam up for grabs, , it's as follows:

Comp Grind: XE274H-10. 20-224-4 (cam card attached)

Lift: 488/491
@.006 274/286
Valve timing @.006:
Installed @106
@.050: 230/236
110 lobe separation

OR I run the current can I have:

CRS 268H-10 Cam card also attached.
.454/.454 lift
@.006 268/268
Installed @106
Duration @.050 218/218
Lobe separation 110

If I use this calculator: Compression Ratio Calculator | UEM Pistons

I come up with the following dynamic and static compression ratios. This was using a .058 head gasket to achieve a quench of .040.

XE274H-10. 20-224-4:
Dynamic: 7.8
Static: 9.3

CRS268H-10
Dynamic: 8.1
Static: 9.3

Am I getting ahead of myself? Do I need to clay the piston to head clearance and let that determine what head gasket I will need, then use those numbers in the calculator?

This is a 4 speed car with Passon OD gearset and 4.10 gears

Thank you! Trying to learn all this.

Screenshot_20220224-055101.png


16471474286829181501693690109307.jpg


16471474639471000970938882509273.jpg
 

AJ/FormS

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With alloy heads, I have run a Dynamic Compression Ratio of over 9.0 and cranking cylinder pressure of over 185psi, still on 87E10 @full timing. If you don't get up to there you are leaving;
a little absolute power,
a modest midrange power
a lot of bottom-end torque, and
a very significant potential to make big mpgs
on the table; not to mention snappy throttle response

So here is what I would do;
what I would do.
I have successfully run , as have others here on FABO, a Q of less than .028. I have heard as low as .020...... so, If NONE of your pistons (check them all) are higher than .015 up out of the hole, I would run the FelPro .039s for a Q of .024, which I am comfortable with.

With 4.08 bore, that .015 pop-up is -3.2cc
Gasket is ..................................... 8.8cc
heads should be........................... 63.0cc
Eyebrows are................................. 5cc
Total is chamber volume is............. 73.6 total
Your swept at 4.08 bore is 710.2.. So your Scr comes to
(710.2 + 73.6)/73.6= 10.65 Scr, nice.
Wiki says elevation Medford is 1300ft so;

So I choose the 268/268/110 cam to keep the pressure up for starters
With an Ica of 60* that will get you a
Dcr of 8.74, a pressure of 177, and a tire frying P/V index of 147
which is about as good as it gets

This is what you need with a manual trans and will allow you to run down to any gear you want; you will be able to trade away your 4.10s.
With that small cam, and a stock heavy flywheel, you you should be able to idle that 340 down to 500/550 in gear on hard flat level ground to about 4.5mph with 3.55s, or 3.8 with the 4.10s (both with a 2.66low gear, and 27s). You are gonna find this to be very important some day.

Yes you can, run the bigger cam. I have been running a similar 230/236/110 cam since 2004, in my 367) allbeit at 11/1 Scr @same 177psi, and while it is a total rush at WOT; how often do I need to spin tires to the speed limit...... and it is hard on fuel; which at the rapidly rising cost of fuel, is gonna hurt

But I gotta tell ya, the lift on that 268 cam is sadly lacking, and the acceleration ramps on that cam are likewise slow; you could do a lot better. see note-1.
While P/V of 146 is pretty good and a lot of fun, this indicates that you could drop the Scr a hair, which I would do by increasing the the Q to the max. With a gasket of .054 the the Q drops to .039, and the new Scr is 10.22 and the new numbers are;
Dcr of [email protected], with a P/V of 140 which is the lowest I would run. And I would not install any bigger cam than the one that makes an Ica of 60*. But it sure wouldn't be that low-lift Comp 268/268/110
I would look at the VooDoos or the Howards, etc; both at 268 and see what's there.
Note-1
Don't get me wrong, the Comp will be a fine long-life cam. But it is not tickling the potential of those heads which you paid a lotta money for. I think you can get the .050 up to 224* and lift up to .550 still with a 268advertized even if you have to go to a 108LSA.
note-2
Try to find something like this; 268/272/108/54 overlap rated at .008 tappet rise, and 224/[email protected], hi-lift whatever you get. This has a Power/extraction cycle of 114* which has the potential to make great mpgs with the right rear gears. AND the combination of, the increase in intake duration of 6*, plus the increase in overlap of 6*, plus the more lift; is pointing to an increase over the nose of at least 12HP ; with NO LOSS of torque or fuel efficiency while cruising; Oh yeah but with a lil more idle-lope.
Happy HotRodding
done
 
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plumkrazee70

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With alloy heads, I have run a Dynamic Compression Ratio of over 9.0 and cranking cylinder pressure of over 185psi, still on 87E10 @full timing. If you don't get up to there you are leaving;
a little absolute power,
a modest midrange power
a lot of bottom-end torque, and
a very significant potential to make big mpgs
on the table; not to mention snappy throttle response

So here is what I would do;
what I would do.
I have successfully run , as have others here on FABO, a Q of less than .028. I have heard as low as .020...... so, If NONE of your pistons (check them all) are higher than .015 up out of the hole, I would run the FelPro .039s for a Q of .024, which I am comfortable with.

With 4.08 bore, that .015 pop-up is -3.2cc
Gasket is ..................................... 8.8cc
heads should be........................... 63.0cc
Eyebrows are................................. 5cc
Total is chamber volume is............. 73.6 total
Your swept at 4.08 bore is 710.2.. So your Scr comes to
(710.2 + 73.6)/73.6= 10.65 Scr, nice.
Wiki says elevation Medford is 1300ft so;

So I choose the 268/268/110 cam to keep the pressure up for starters
With an Ica of 60* that will get you a
Dcr of 8.74, a pressure of 177, and a tire frying P/V index of 147
which is about as good as it gets

This is what you need with a manual trans and will allow you to run down to any gear you want; you will be able to trade away your 4.10s.
With that small cam, and a stock heavy flywheel, you you should be able to idle that 340 down to 500/550 in gear on hard flat level ground to about 4.5mph with 3.55s, or 3.8 with the 4.10s (both with a 2.66low gear, and 27s). You are gonna find this to be very important some day.

Yes you can, run the bigger cam. I have been running a similar 230/236/110 cam since 2004, in my 367) allbeit at 11/1 Scr @same 177psi, and while it is a total rush at WOT; how often do I need to spin tires to the speed limit...... and it is hard on fuel; which at the rapidly rising cost of fuel, is gonna hurt

But I gotta tell ya, the lift on that 268 cam is sadly lacking, and the acceleration ramps on that cam are likewise slow; you could do a lot better. see note-1.
While P/V of 146 is pretty good and a lot of fun, this indicates that you could drop the Scr a hair, which I would do by increasing the the Q to the max. With a gasket of .054 the the Q drops to .039, and the new Scr is 10.22 and the new numbers are;
Dcr of [email protected], with a P/V of 140 which is the lowest I would run. And I would not install any bigger cam than the one that makes an Ica of 60*. But it sure wouldn't be that low-lift Comp 268/268/110
I would look at the VooDoos or the Howards, etc; both at 268 and see what's there.
Note-1
Don't get me wrong, the Comp will be a fine long-life cam. But it is not tickling the potential of those heads which you paid a lotta money for. I think you can get the .050 up to 224* and lift up to .550 still with a 268advertized even if you have to go to a 108LSA.
note-2
Try to find something like this; 268/272/108/54 overlap rated at .008 tappet rise, and 224/[email protected], hi-lift whatever you get. This has a Power/extraction cycle of 114* which has the potential to make great mpgs with the right rear gears. AND the combination of, the increase in intake duration of 6*, plus the increase in overlap of 6*, plus the more lift; is pointing to an increase over the nose of at least 12HP ; with NO LOSS of torque or fuel efficiency while cruising; Oh yeah but with a lil more idle-lope.
Happy HotRodding
done

Thanks for writing that all out. I checked cyl 1 and it's out of the hole .018, that's over the .015. I'll check the rest. Do you think I'll have piston to head clearance with that tight of a quench? I agree that my current cam, isn't doing the heads any justice.
 

AJ/FormS

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.021Q has been reported as successfully-run on FABO, but not by me, and only by a couple of members; so ask around. You have to have a sharp tune at that spec.
However, before I would run the .054 gasket, I would mill the crowns a tad; see note-1, down to in the range of .010 to .012, for the .039m FelPro. That gasket is tough as can be. I've run it at a tic over 190psi, with no problems.
If the 268/110 cam is already in the engine, and in good shape; you paid good money for it, so you may as well leave it there. I sure wouldn't condemn it unless I really needed more.
>Because your short-block is shaping up with a pretty decent compression ratio, this gives you the freedom to run an Ica of up to about 64* before the P/V starts getting soft at 130. I wouldn't run down there, but many on FABO do. And with 4.10s you could get away with it. (I run 3.55s so need the extra oomph of 160Plus) What that means is that your cam does not necessarily need to go in at the recommended 4* advance. With the 4.10s you could easily go as far as to straight up.

That is the beauty of running a high pressure ; you get to run hiway gears in the city, AND you get to run a smaller cam, about one cam size per 10points of P/V.
So if you have a car that needs to cruise say with 3.23s for 65=2600, then you gotta pump the pressure up.
For me, a streeter is all about getting second gear dialed in. I like a second gear of around 6.80. With a 1.92 Second gear, this is 3.55s; that's why I run them.
This will get me 30=2550, slow enough to cruise in, and 60=5100 on the power peak, for ripping. First gear is whatever, and cruise also is whatever I get.
So then, the starter is just 2.66 x 3.55=9.44, for take off power, which can be a tad lackluster; so then; I need cubes, pressure, or a lower first gear. That's why I have a 360, AND a Commando 3.09 low gear, AND a high P/V over 160!, lol.
But at hiway speed the Rs of 2870 are just too much for me, so I installed a GVod which brings it down to 65=2240. At 2240, that high P/V now pays dividends with a potential for great fuel-economy.
The only other way to get the RPM down that far with a 4-speed, is with a 2.76 gear. Not going there, lol.
Ask around FABO about P/V and 10 guys will jump on and say P/V means nothing to them, but I can almost guarantee you that #1, they have an automatic trans, and #2 with a hi-stall, so they are right, for them P/V means almost nothing..... because P/V is an indicator of low-rpm performance. by 3000 to 3500 it is getting to be meaningless. And #3, they are probably not interested in mpgs either. So when you go asking, make sure you specify 340 and manual trans.
>For you, a high P/V is a really big deal. I suggest a minimum of 140 with 3.55s; but could be less with 4.10s, but IMO 130 is the lowest, else your 340 will start to feel like a lazy-azz smoggerteen when taking off......... even with the 4.10s!, altho like a 318 with 4.10s, lol.
I use the Wallace calculator exclusively now.
Wallace Racing: Dynamic Compression Ratio Calculator

note-1
>Milling on a fixture is fast and easy, and those slugs have plenty of meat on them. Taking .006/.008 off is just one pass so should be cheap, and is a better solution than the .054 gasket, IMO.
>The FellPro .039s are so tough, I have even reused them, bringing their cost down to 1/2.
>My KB 107s are about .007 out of the holes and so the Q is now .032 which I feel is adequate. My alloy-headed combo is no quicker with the PowerTiming set at 36* advance than 32*; so I run 32 to 34. I delayed it to all in by 3400 and so she runs exclusively on 87E10..
 
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72bluNblu

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Thanks for writing that all out. I checked cyl 1 and it's out of the hole .018, that's over the .015. I'll check the rest. Do you think I'll have piston to head clearance with that tight of a quench? I agree that my current cam, isn't doing the heads any justice.

Has this engine been blueprinted? Because if it hasn’t, there’s no way I’d go below .030” for quench. This is a street engine right?

There’s a lot of crap on the internet, and guys love to one up each other. Not to mention you don’t usually get the whole story. Like, ok, maybe some fully blueprinted, track only engine assembled by a known drag race engine builder ran a .021” quench. It could have happened. Did it last 100k miles? Or one season? And maybe the guy that built it knows a whole bunch of tricks to pull that off and make it live.

I see the same thing with tire combinations all the time. Guys will say they run some gigantic tire and didn’t do any trimming and it never rubs. But then you look at the information they’re not giving you, their car is raised up like a 4x4, they only drive it a few hundred miles a year, they trailer it, etc, etc. They’re not driving around town and over speed bumps or taking steep parking lot transitions etc, and maybe don’t notice that they actually ARE rubbing when they do encounter real world situations. But that’s not the story you’ll hear on the ‘net, and a lot of guys will get defensive when you start asking them questions if it suddenly seems like they’re not 100% right.

So, I would be real careful about some of the crazy quench numbers you hear.

Remember what your original goal was, a street engine with good torque and low end. You don’t need 10:1 compression and a tiny quench to achieve that. Shaving the pistons isn’t a bad idea, but, remember that you’ve got hypers and not forged pistons. You might wanna ask a tech at KB what you options/limits are for doing some milling there.
 

Rat Bastid

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Has this engine been blueprinted? Because if it hasn’t, there’s no way I’d go below .030” for quench. This is a street engine right?

There’s a lot of crap on the internet, and guys love to one up each other. Not to mention you don’t usually get the whole story. Like, ok, maybe some fully blueprinted, track only engine assembled by a known drag race engine builder ran a .021” quench. It could have happened. Did it last 100k miles? Or one season? And maybe the guy that built it knows a whole bunch of tricks to pull that off and make it live.

I see the same thing with tire combinations all the time. Guys will say they run some gigantic tire and didn’t do any trimming and it never rubs. But then you look at the information they’re not giving you, their car is raised up like a 4x4, they only drive it a few hundred miles a year, they trailer it, etc, etc. They’re not driving around town and over speed bumps or taking steep parking lot transitions etc, and maybe don’t notice that they actually ARE rubbing when they do encounter real world situations. But that’s not the story you’ll hear on the ‘net, and a lot of guys will get defensive when you start asking them questions if it suddenly seems like they’re not 100% right.

So, I would be real careful about some of the crazy quench numbers you hear.

Remember what your original goal was, a street engine with good torque and low end. You don’t need 10:1 compression and a tiny quench to achieve that. Shaving the pistons isn’t a bad idea, but, remember that you’ve got hypers and not forged pistons. You might wanna ask a tech at KB what you options/limits are for doing some milling there.


This^^^^^ There is no reason to go below .040 quench. If it actually did make more power you’d need a NASCAR or Pro Stock level dyno and data collection system. Or better yet an OE level system.
 

plumkrazee70

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Thanks to AJ for taking the time to write all that out, but to be honest I don't want to mill the pistons. I also want a strong reliable street engine. All your math and understanding.is impressive, however it feels like max power output, which feels like a race car setup not a street engine.

The motor has NOT been blue printed. It was put together to get it running, very mild as you know. Since AI have it out for the 4 speed conversion, I wanted to do some upgrades.

I agree with the .040 quench as that is what I have been reading. So my question is should I go ahead and clay the piston to head (and with what gasket?) I have the old 8553 PT that were on the old heads, which are .049 compressed.

Still not sure which cam I should use.
 
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