EFI to replace Edelbrock carb

[rmchrgr]

That's where people get me wrong with it. I spent YEARS on the line as an alignment tech. Why is that important? Because in dealerships, the alignment tech gets all the stuff no one wants or can figure out. Which means I got a ton of driveability. I learned a lot. I know way more about EFI than I let on. I know enoufh to know I don't like it and that's enough for me. Intimidated? Hardly. I detest it. Computer and cars should have never happened.

If you or anyone else is still befuddled/angered by computers and software in 2025 it must be difficult to navigate life in general let alone retrofit EFI systems. "Detesting" anything is purely emotional. You have a right to feel however you want about it but it's not relevant to whether it works or not.

That said, alignments obviously have zero to do with fuel injection or any type of ECU managed systems (well maybe some BCMs) so the correlation about solving "drivability" issues is a bit thin. Being able to troubleshoot stuff others don't know enough about is a good general skill but I'm not sure it necessarily applies directly to jobs that require a fairly specific skill like sound wiring. Did doing aligments somehow give you insight into building transmissions or how to do body work and paint?

These retrofit systems are only as good as the people that install them. If someone skimps out on certain parts, ignores instructions or thinks good wiring is twisting two wires together and covering it with a roll of electrical tape then they probably shouldn't be messing with this type of thing to begin with.

Garbage in, garbage out as they say.

 

[DionR]

Computer and cars should have never happened.

I agree there are limits, but I disagree that there is no place for them. Try running a 1000hp motor on a carb and letting someone's mom or wife take it to the store.

"No, you have to feather the throttle until it get's warm. No, don't whack it open like that, just enough to keep running. You aren't timing the throttle right, start it again and try and match the drop in RPM. Now it is flooded, let me pull the air cleaner and get it cleaned out. Ok, now remember to put it in neutral at stop lights so it doesn't load up. When it starts surging, throw it in neutral and wing the throttle a couple of times but be careful that you let the RPM's drop before you put it back in gear so you don't accidentally do a burn out. Have fun, it a great car to get groceries in".

Cars like the Hellcat, let alone a Demon 170, would be a hard sell for the OEM's without EFI. Not saying they don't build 700hp big block crate motors with carbs, just that the market it too small for an OEM to make sense without the drivability that EFI can provide. And try driving that motor from Denver to San Diego.

Not saying every car needs a computer, nor that everyone should convert. Only that there is a place for them and that without EFI (I don't believe) we would have some of the top flight stuff we have on the roads now.

 

[360notch]

My brother and I used a returnless system on his 6.4 swapped Demon with a Corvette filter. We even went to GM for the filter as I had heard of problems with the aftermarket ones.

His motor has a cam and aftermarket intake and MMX suggested a big in tank pump. When we energized the system the pressure gauge showed like 100psi and would hold that pressure for days. He called someone (can’t remember who) and they said those Corvette filters won’t work with a big pump as they just can’t handle the flow, so we added a filter and regulator but kept the returnless system.

We used a returnless system as that’s what the stock PCM expects. I think the factories use that system because it is cheaper as it saves a fuel line run. And I think even high HP cars like the Demon 170 was still a returnless system, and if so I would say it can be made to work. I’m not saying the stock PCM couldn’t work with a return system, but why spend money on more fuel line if it works?

My build will have a returnless system as well, but using a Gen5 Camaro pump in the tank. Simple to plump and good enough for me.

To be clear, not arguing that a return style system isn’t better, only that it isn’t absolutely necessary.

Thank you for the info, and for taking the extra time to write it so clearly!

 

[rmchrgr]

Some of the blame on the negativity of these systems can placed on the advertising. Guys really seem to believe that it will be a magic bullet. I've seen it with my neighbor, he just bought the plug-and-play idea hook, line and sinker. Couldn't be further from the truth.

The companies that produce these systems wouldn't sell half of what they do if people that buy them knew what it took for a successful install.

 

[MadScientistMat]

Personally, PWM fuel pump control makes a lot of sense, big pump or not. Why have the pump thumping away at full speed all the time and bypassing a bunch of fuel that isn't needed? And with PWM there is no need for a regulator at all, just a sensor. Not that it is cheaper, the controller kits are fairly expensive.

Main problem is that some pumps are difficult to control precisely enough to regulate pressure, especially large gerotor type pumps running at low speed. Bypass regulators also are easier to avoid vapor lock since continuously circulating in more fuel tends to push vapor out.

 

[MadScientistMat]

Some of the blame on the negativity of these systems can placed on the advertising. Guys really seem to believe that it will be a magic bullet. I've seen it with my neighbor, he just bought the plug-and-play idea hook, line and sinker. Couldn't be further from the truth.

The companies that produce these systems wouldn't sell half of what they do if people that buy them knew what it took for a successful install.

Very true.Also:
Self tuning EFI is not self troubleshooting.
Nobody has figured out self tuning spark timing.

 

[DionR]

Main problem is that some pumps are difficult to control precisely enough to regulate pressure, especially large gerotor type pumps running at low speed.

I wonder if that is why the Redeye and Demon went to a dual pump. Easier to control two smaller pumps rather than one large one?

 

[tonysrt]

DionR don't compare Factory installed EFI to aftermarket EFI. The cars coming with it installed from the factory have it down pat. I have an 05 Ram, don't use the truck for 2 weeks, turn the key and take right off, regardless of the weather. Has never failed me in my 20 years and over 100,000 miles.
2 different aftermarket EFI's have failed me. ECU got hot and failed, cooled off ok till got hot again.

 

[rmchrgr]

Since there seems to be a lot of these these questions popping up in recent years I am considering writing up a detailed primer on EFI conversions. It wouldn't be technical as much as it would be about helping someone decide if it's the right move or not. A lot of people don't see the entire picture beyond just buying a kit. I've installed a couple of these systems and know may around them pretty well. Hopefully it can be made into a sticky for people to refer to before they ask a general "should I or shouldn't I" question.

At this point a dedicated EFI forum would be a useful addition. We have a 3D printing and model building forums so why not an EFI forum? Maybe my treatise could be the first post.

Whadya think mods?

 

[RustyRatRod]

Some of the blame on the negativity of these systems can placed on the advertising. Guys really seem to believe that it will be a magic bullet. I've seen it with my neighbor, he just bought the plug-and-play idea hook, line and sinker. Couldn't be further from the truth.

The companies that produce these systems wouldn't sell half of what they do if people that buy them knew what it took for a successful install.

I agree. That's a BIG part of everything is the bullcrap marketing. Companies will say anything for a sale.