Electric Power Steering Pump - 1967 Barracuda

Suspension, Steering and Chassis

  1. hal9000

    hal9000 Active Member

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    I did this to my car a few years ago, I kept meaning to post it in case it was useful for someone else someday. I'm sure there are cleaner and nicer ways to do it, but this what I did.

    I used a Mazda / Ford / Volvo electric power steering pump, I think mine came from a Mid or late 2000's Volvo. Some of them have a remote reservoir that if someone was feeling ambitious they could poke that up through the fender or just bring the pump up higher and poke through.

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    I fabbed an aluminum bracket that ties into the bumper mount bolts and part of the inner valiance? panel behind the headlights. I purchased a Volvo OEM wiring harness for the pump power, but if you can get with the pigtail from the yard it would be way better. Also I found someone on ebay who sells the connectors and crimps as well I think for $20. I believe if you know the right parts you could also get from digikey. You need 3 wires, constant power, ground, and switched ignition to turn it on. If one was so inclined they could hook up the CAN bus to it to change it's speed but that would take real effort, without the CAN bus it goes to a "default" or "limp" mode and it will happily sit there and work.

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    I have the engine out of the car at the moment for an "upgrade" but you get the idea, there is a lot more room. The car had a 69 318 in it w/ schumacher mounts on a /6 K member. I had tried to install a factory pump in a few different bracket setups and pump styles but none of them work well / cleared everything so I went this rout instead.
     
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    • moparmat2000

      moparmat2000 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      So it's an electric motor that drives a hydro pump? Interesting new twist on the electric power steering idea.
       
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      • Jim Lusk

        Jim Lusk Well-Known Member

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        Do you know the current draw? Who made the special pressure hose? There are several Volvos at our local Pick N Pull. Might be worth a look.
         
      • j par

        j par Well-hung Member

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        I like this..:thumbsup:..
         
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        • dodgy

          dodgy Well-Known Member

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          Nice, how does it feel compared to the belt driven pump?
          I have done the same conversion but I'm yet to drive it.

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          • 67Dart273

            67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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            Interesting but what does it really accomplish? The big clearance problem is the box, not the pump LOL Of course some have bought a Borgenson box.
             
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            • j par

              j par Well-hung Member

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              I put my AC pump in the power steering position so this would be a great option if I wanted power steering...
               
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              • Jim Lusk

                Jim Lusk Well-Known Member

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                It accomplishes a couple of things, in my mind. Mopar pumps have become expensive and hard to find. I was going through my pumps this afternoon. I've got a couple that I can put a seal kit in and they'll likely work, BUT I can pick up one of these electric pumps for a little more than a seal kit for a 50+ year old pump and I'm still short some big block pump brackets, I think. I am a little concerned about current draw, but from what I've read under normal conditions it will draw a little more than an electric fan.
                 
              • Jim Lusk

                Jim Lusk Well-Known Member

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                Well, I wandered down to Pick N Pull this afternoon to look at the two S40s they had. Both pumps were gone, so I just walked the yard and SCORED. It's from an unknown year Mazda 5 (maybe a CX5, not too sure) with a remote reservoir. $56 with a one year warranty. Also got the seal kit in my son's gear box over the weekend. Now to figure out hoses and maybe bench test the whole thing. Even grabbed the mounting bracket as the pump is rubber isolated. I love it when a plan comes together... 20210305_141100.jpg 20210306_122719.jpg 20210308_164004.jpg
                 
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                • Jim Lusk

                  Jim Lusk Well-Known Member

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                  Well, now I'm looking for a shorter reservoir. I'm thinking custom battery tray with a slightly smaller battery parallel to the radiator support and the pump mounted behind that. Height will then be tight. I looked at a few reservoirs at Summit, including one original Mopar part number. Just need to be sure that the hose is the same size. Many of these have an extra, smaller nipple. Not sure where that goes, but I'm sure it can just be plugged.
                   
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                  • dodgy

                    dodgy Well-Known Member

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                    Have you checked if your pump unit is self standing and don't require an input from other parts of the mazda? . think i seen somewhere on the net that some pumps need that and will be at full power otherwise, The TRW pump i have will idle down till it senses a pressure drop then ramp up.
                     
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                    • hal9000

                      hal9000 Active Member

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                      @jim, nice score. I was thinking the extended reservoir in the model you have could poke up through the inner fender if one was brave enough to put a hole saw to it and trim with a grommet around it.

                      With regards to the different similar pumps. I have read anecdotal reports that some do not work in the "limp" mode that I am running mine in, but I have seen no confirmed reports of this. I also see people talking about the TRW units, I do not know much about them except they appear to look similar, so I assume these are all the same OEM but with different firmwares on them, ZF also seems to list a similar looking unit. There are a lot of people who have documented these pumps, here is a good place for people to dig into it if they want.

                      With regards to feel / usage. I never drove the care with power steering before, it had a power box and no pump when I got it. It was sloppy due to the lack of assist and very hard to turn / park with the sticky 245 17's on the front. With the pump running it feels like other Mopars of a similar era I think, pinky level force required to turn the wheel. If you are turning really fast into a parking spot you can overrun the pump's flow and loose the assist. but for 95% of driving it feels seamless. I have not tried to autocross it (yet).

                      For the hydraulic hose, I just measured and crossed my fingers and bought a prefabbed hose from McMaster, it was P/N 9459K241, 3 ft hose. It worked out perfect. But nothing as clean as what Dodgy is doing.

                      @Dodgy,very clean setup! What is with the pot box with the relays, couple 7 segments and button? Looks intriguing.
                       
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                      • Jim Lusk

                        Jim Lusk Well-Known Member

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                        The wiring on the Mazda pump looks identical to what I have seen on the Volvo pumps. It may or may not operate the same, but there are guys working on a solution. I have another idea that may work, but I have to get up the nerve to take the whole thing apart and look at the electronics, not the input side, but the motor side. I know the input side is looking for certain codes to come on the CAN BUS, but the output (motor) side might simply be a square wave that varies in frequency. Everybody that I've seen is looking at the BUS signal. In the end, it matters little because I got a 1-year warranty with it. Won't get cash back, but I would get credit towards something.
                         
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                        • Jim Lusk

                          Jim Lusk Well-Known Member

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                          • Jim Lusk

                            Jim Lusk Well-Known Member

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                            • Jim Lusk

                              Jim Lusk Well-Known Member

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                              I was also thinking about cutting a hole in my son's inner fender, but at this time we will try something else. It still might happen, though. I just hate to cut through fresh paint...on real nice inner fenders...
                               
                            • pishta

                              pishta I know I'm right....

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                              give it the distributor signal.....ie T off the pickup. I think the flying magnet in the speedo could maybe used with a Hall effect or non magnetic VR sensor to give a speed varied signal?
                               
                            • Jim Lusk

                              Jim Lusk Well-Known Member

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                              Not a bad idea. At least to try. I'm gonna bench test it before it goes in the car...
                               
                            • pishta

                              pishta I know I'm right....

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                              Id try the VR sensor in the speedometer, sounds like a great idea...to me! Jam one of these in there as close as possible to the spinning yoke and mabe itll pick up a signal. Junkyard "pocket" change :) Good_Quality_Camshaft_Position_Sensor.jpg

                              Not sure if you'll have to condition the sine wave to become a square wave but its just an LM1815 chip
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                            • dodgy

                              dodgy Well-Known Member

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                              @Dodgy,very clean setup! What is with the pot box with the relays, couple 7 segments and button? Looks intriguing.

                              That is just a Davis Craig fan controller for twin thermo fans.

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                            • hal9000

                              hal9000 Active Member

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                              For my high pressure side I used a fitting like this one with an o-ring seal. Not sure if your pump is different. I remember a few years ago when researching this there was a youtube video of someone with the back of the unit off, and they broadcasting CAN messages to it (assuming it was vehicle speed) and it would spin up and down. I don't know how far people got, and if they published that info (and it's probably year / make / model model dependent) but if it was published I'd have no trouble making a little open source board that took various inputs such as VR sensors from wheel speed, dizzys, throttle position, whatever and send out data over CAN.

                              As far opening one up, maybe, I suspect it's conformal coated so that could be a pain. Some BLDC's motor systems have a separate motor drive circuit but most that are tightly integrated (low cost, mass produced) that have a micro (in this case to do the CAN bus stuff) will also use it to do the motor commutation. A BLDC setup will typically be be running in a torque control mode with a speed control loop adjusting the torque to regulate speed. If it does have a standalone commutation logic section or dedicated chip for this, it's typically a PWM or analog signal that will be used to very the motor current, and you wont be able to just command a speed. If someone really wanted to work towards this they are welcome to send me pictures, maybe a new firmware could be made and loaded.
                               
                            • Jim Lusk

                              Jim Lusk Well-Known Member

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                              Banjo fittings (yes, plural) came in today. Instead of the one I thought I was buying, they sent three. It's actually part of a kit that is sold by American Grease Stick to repair power steering lines with cheaper solutions, so maybe that's why they came in a box of three. Might sell one just in case I decide to find another pump to use in my Barracuda. I have discovered the need for a shorter reservoir. Might find something and repurpose it or go wander the yard again and see what is out there.
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                            • dodgy

                              dodgy Well-Known Member

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                              The TRW unit is around 10" . Top to toe.

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                            • Jim Lusk

                              Jim Lusk Well-Known Member

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                              The Mazda is taller with the reservoir. Might get out to the yard in the next few days to look for a shorter reservoir.
                               
                            • 67Dart273

                              67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                              I might have to look into these for an outboard power tilt
                               
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