Electric water pump - configuration of heater hoses

[SB Mopar Stroker]

Running a SBM 408 stroker. Street/strip car but currently basically only strip as it has the "electric water pump drive" which as you all know is not very streetable at all (if you didn't know that, the Moroso water pump drive does not flow enough to sustain steady state use for extended time.) After winning the final round Saturday, driving down the return road, the engine temp gauge began to climb and the already troublesome electric motor had fully given up the ghost. Fortunately not any sooner else I'd have had to forfeit.

Trying to rectify this and make the car street-able once again for next year, therefore I have 2 questions regarding all of the electric water pumps out there. Basically sounds like there are 3 "bolt on" options for small blocks? CSR, Moroso, and Meziere, is this correct?

1) I need to retain the heater core. What do I need to make this work, as the stock water pump has the heater core hose fitting?

2) It seems there are some questions out there about belt routing with the "expensive" electric water pumps. Currently the alternator is in the stock location and I am just running a single belt from the crank to the alternator. I don't see why this wouldn't work but sounds like a lot of people going to the lower mount alternator? Is there a clearance issue I am not foreseeing?

 

[j par]

Running a SBM 408 stroker. Street/strip car but currently basically only strip as it has the "electric water pump drive" which as you all know is not very streetable at all (if you didn't know that, the Moroso water pump drive does not flow enough to sustain steady state use for extended time.) After winning the final round Saturday, driving down the return road, the engine temp gauge began to climb and the already troublesome electric motor had fully given up the ghost. Fortunately not any sooner else I'd have had to forfeit.

Trying to rectify this and make the car street-able once again for next year, therefore I have 2 questions regarding all of the electric water pumps out there. Basically sounds like there are 3 "bolt on" options for small blocks? CSR, Moroso, and Meziere, is this correct?

1) I need to retain the heater core. What do I need to make this work, as the stock water pump has the heater core hose fitting?

2) It seems there are some questions out there about belt routing with the "expensive" electric water pumps. Currently the alternator is in the stock location and I am just running a single belt from the crank to the alternator. I don't see why this wouldn't work but sounds like a lot of people going to the lower mount alternator? Is there a clearance issue I am not foreseeing?

I'm just a little confused as are you asking because you're going to put a full electrical water pump on or are you just going to put a manual pump and triangulate the belt? I have had the little belt drive that drives the manual pump and I've had the full electric water pump.

 

[j par]

When I ran this pump I had to run a March performance reduced Drive pulley because it kept throwing the belt without being triangulated. It just drove it to fast. but then it kind of drove it to slow at idle and everything is electric.

 

[j par]

Also welcome to the Forum and I hope I'm not wasting my breath here LOL

 

[SB Mopar Stroker]

I'm just a little confused as are you asking because you're going to put a full electrical water pump on or are you just going to put a manual pump and triangulate the belt? I have had the little belt drive that drives the manual pump and I've had the full electric water pump.

I am going to install a full electric pump. CURRENTLY I have the little belt driven water pump drive, but it's not working out the way I want. I wanted to make sure the full electric pumps aren't larger or different dimensionally where it would interfere with the belt going to the alternator. Based on your picture I'm very confident this won't be an issue.

I've had no issues this year with the single V-belt from the crank to the alternator only. It may be discharging very slightly at idle but I doubt it. I have a 90 or 95W alternator and running electric fan, fuel pump, and water pump off toggle switches. No issues with the 'yellow top' battery.

And thanks for the welcome!

 

[j par]

I am going to install a full electric pump. CURRENTLY I have the little belt driven water pump drive, but it's not working out the way I want. I wanted to make sure the full electric pumps aren't larger or different dimensionally where it would interfere with the belt going to the alternator. Based on your picture I'm very confident this won't be an issue.

I've had no issues this year with the single V-belt from the crank to the alternator only. It may be discharging very slightly at idle but I doubt it. I have a 90 or 95W alternator and running electric fan, fuel pump, and water pump off toggle switches. No issues with the 'yellow top' battery.

And thanks for the welcome!

Well as you can see I've since pulled mine off and just put a pulley on the water pump and triangulated the belt. I seriously don't think you're going to pick up anything but another heating problem and a big empty spot in your wallet were there used to be something.

 

[SB Mopar Stroker]

Well as you can see I've since pulled mine off and just put a pulley on the water pump and triangulated the belt. I seriously don't think you're going to pick up anything but another heating problem and a big empty spot in your wallet were there used to be something.

The electric is strongly preferred to cool the engine between runs at the track. On a hot day this is a must. Mechanical pump is obviously ideal on the street but I'm trying to strike a balance between street and strip.

 

[roccodart440]

electric water pumps are very suitable for street use if you buy the right one. The one I used is still in service to this day nearly 20 years later. I used a CSR which is made for street use.

 

[j par]

my electric water pump could have possibly been good enough for Street use but I did change my radiator at the same time and gain probably another gallon of volume. It could be that a bigger radiator sometimes is needed.

 

[j par]

And you're right I could just leave the fans in the water pump going and it would cool it down within about 5 to 10 minutes.

 

[Johnny Mac]

I can't answer the hose question, but here is an article i wrote years ago on how i had to reduce pulley size, and mount my stock type alternator lower on the head...and upside down..lol but i made it work.

Johnny @ BluePrint: How To: Mounting an Alternator with an Electric Water Pump SBM

 

[SB Mopar Stroker]

I can't answer the hose question, but here is an article i wrote years ago on how i had to reduce pulley size, and mount my stock type alternator lower on the head...and upside down..lol but i made it work.

Johnny @ BluePrint: How To: Mounting an Alternator with an Electric Water Pump SBM

Excellent. Ok that makes sense, I hadn't figured on the bracket MOUNT bolts being an issue. I heard people had issues with it but I expected it was belt routing. Ok thanks a bunch for the insight.

 

[j par]

I can't answer the hose question, but here is an article i wrote years ago on how i had to reduce pulley size, and mount my stock type alternator lower on the head...and upside down..lol but i made it work.

Johnny @ BluePrint: How To: Mounting an Alternator with an Electric Water Pump SBM

I just used a March performance pulley and use the stock location and that stopped it from throwing belts. I think my shift light was set at 6800, but I hardly pay attention to that LOL I was wondering if you noticed you were able to stop the belt from throwing by moving it closer which would make sense? And by the way when it did throw a belt it was almost great because all I can think was less drag more horsepower! kept it to the floor!...

 

[Johnny Mac]

I just used a March performance pulley and use the stock location and that stopped it from throwing belts. I think my shift light was set at 6800, but I hardly pay attention to that LOL I was wondering if you noticed you were able to stop the belt from throwing by moving it closer which would make sense? And by the way when it did throw a belt it was almost great because all I can think was less drag more horsepower! kept it to the floor!...

If I recall, since the OE type alternator bracket originally used the pump casting to achieve its spacing, I had to use several alternator tube spacers to space the bracket back out from the now, shallower, depth of the electric water pump. With the motor of the electric water pump being so much fatter, and sticking out further than the OE pump, the belt running right from the crank pulley to the alt actually hit the motor housing. I had to lower the alt, but it wasn't enough with the bolt in the upper head bolt. So i moved it to the lower position, clocked it some, and put on a much shorter belt. I left the OEM crank pulley on it at this point, which was a mistake. I threw belts constantly, but i shift at 7100. I then tried the moroso pulley, and it took care of the belt throwing issue. only point to make about the moroso pulley is that it has the single off-center bolt location like an early chrysler balancer, so most will have to run one less bolt.

 

[j par]

If I recall, since the OE type alternator bracket originally used the pump casting to achieve its spacing, I had to use several alternator tube spacers to space the bracket back out from the now, shallower, depth of the electric water pump. With the motor of the electric water pump being so much fatter, and sticking out further than the OE pump, the belt running right from the crank pulley to the alt actually hit the motor housing. I had to lower the alt, but it wasn't enough with the bolt in the upper head bolt. So i moved it to the lower position, clocked it some, and put on a much shorter belt. I left the OEM crank pulley on it at this point, which was a mistake. I threw belts constantly, but i shift at 7100. I then tried the moroso pulley, and it took care of the belt throwing issue. only point to make about the moroso pulley is that it has the single off-center bolt location like an early chrysler balancer, so most will have to run one less bolt.

View attachment 1715236474

View attachment 1715236475

View attachment 1715236477

Very good now I clearly see what you were doing and it just made the light come on cuz it's been a good six months since I had this setup on there but what I did was I modified the triangle bracket. You can see where the material got thin and I had to weld on some more material. This though allowed less spacing I believe and also that's probably how I got away with the stock configuration.

 

[j par]

it's a pretty old picture but it's the only one I can find with the old set up.

 

[Johnny Mac]

View attachment 1715236499 it's a pretty old picture but it's the only one I can find with the old set up.

you're refreshing my memory also! with you moving that alternator bracket in, you were able to create clearance, cool! 2 ways to skin a cat!

 

[j par]

Of course it called for a custom belt and I tried to get the shortest belt I could put on there.

 

[j par]

I kind of like your idea of shortening the belt that can only help things.

 

[j par]

You can also see once I went to a manual water pump I left that water pump right on that timing chain housing. If I ever go back I don't want to mess with trying to get that to reseal again. Not that I had any problems with it but I don't want any in the future.

 

[67Dart273]

I'd start with the Meziere website

"There used to be" a device to tap into a lower hose for block heater

1-1/2" Lower Radiator Hose Connector for Kat's Heaters Circulating Tank Heaters Kats Heater

https://shell7.tdl.com/~jags/Pages/Parts_DATZ_Hose-Splice-Kit.html

Found this

AutoMeter Radiator Hose Adapters 2283

 

[SB Mopar Stroker]

I'd start with the Meziere website

"There used to be" a device to tap into a lower hose for block heater

1-1/2" Lower Radiator Hose Connector for Kat's Heaters Circulating Tank Heaters Kats Heater

https://shell7.tdl.com/~jags/Pages/Parts_DATZ_Hose-Splice-Kit.html

Found this

AutoMeter Radiator Hose Adapters 2283

Thanks for these links

As you know, there are 2 hoses that go to the heater core. One pressure (inlet) and one return. One of them comes off the intake and the other is the fitting on the water pump.

Which one of them is pressure and which is the return? If the one off the WP is the pressure, I don't think tapping the lower rad hose will work.

 

[SB Mopar Stroker]

Thanks for these links

As you know, there are 2 hoses that go to the heater core. One pressure (inlet) and one return. One of them comes off the intake and the other is the fitting on the water pump.

Which one of them is pressure and which is the return? If the one off the WP is the pressure, I don't think tapping the lower rad hose will work.

According to this video, the RETURN line is coming back to the WP from the heater core (granted he's working on a Mustang but it seems to be the same either way.) In that case, it should be no problem to tap the lower radiator hose and send the return water there instead of to the pump.

 

[67Dart273]

Thanks for these links

As you know, there are 2 hoses that go to the heater core. One pressure (inlet) and one return. One of them comes off the intake and the other is the fitting on the water pump.

Which one of them is pressure and which is the return? If the one off the WP is the pressure, I don't think tapping the lower rad hose will work.

You should be able to hook to the intake, that is "to" the heater, "from" the block. The adapters I posted to the lower hose are same as pump inlet.

Also they make risers which go under the stat which might be used for such as heater fittings (which you already have on the intake?) and water temp probe

 

[SB Mopar Stroker]

You should be able to hook to the intake, that is "to" the heater, "from" the block. The adapters I posted to the lower hose are same as pump inlet.

Also they make risers which go under the stat which might be used for such as heater fittings (which you already have on the intake?) and water temp probe

Thanks for feedback. Yes, the heater core is currently plumbed in fine. The intake fitting is already there. I will just need to splice in the heater core return into lower rad hose using a fitting you shared above. From there will simply need to resolve the alternator bracket to fit the V-belt off the crank and the electric pump should be set.

Has anybody run this Moroso pump? (Moroso 63565: Billet Electric Water Pump Chrysler 273-360 | JEGS)

There is only 1 review I can find, its on summit and it's 1/5 stars. But it's much more affordable than the meziere option.