Fan/Condenser/Trans Cooler Spacing

Discussion in 'Heating / Cooling / AC' started by carfreak6970, Aug 13, 2018.

  1. carfreak6970

    carfreak6970 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    295
    Likes Received:
    40
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2014
    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    Local Time:
    4:33 PM
    Below are pictures of the clutch fan set up

    fan 1.jpg
    Fan 2.jpg

    If you look at the first photo and towards the bottom of the photo you can see how much of the fan is still out of the shroud. In the second photo you can kind of make out how far the fan blade tips are from the ID of the shroud opening


    Now interestingly enough I contacted Hayden (the company that made the clutch I have) about my issue and they say to use the original fan that came on the truck with their clutch. Well that was just a five blade fan (I put another 7 blade mopar fan on). So maybe, just maybe, the 7 blade clutch fan pulls "too much" air through the radiator (if there is even such a thing) which is causing the cooling system to go bonkers. So in the mean time I put the fixed fan back on for a road trip I am taking since that set up works as long as the truck stays moving. I am going to dig the 5 blade fan out of the parts shed when I get back to my parents place and install that to see if that makes a difference. According to a truck site they claim the 1 row aluminum radiator isnt enough to keep the truck cool while stopped with the a/c on. So a bigger radiator may be in this trucks future.
     
  2. mopar505

    mopar505 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    68
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
    Location:
    pa
    Local Time:
    4:33 PM
    how much air is the present set up pulling thru just the radiator? Hold something up in there/paper at front side of rad and see if it holds/ pulls. compare that to the front of trans cooler, how is that? you said the trans cooler is an after market piece. wondering if it is restricting air flow? also what does water flow look like once stat opens up? 208,000 mile vehicle? how does radiator look and have you cooked/flushed it out?
     
  3. carfreak6970

    carfreak6970 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    295
    Likes Received:
    40
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2014
    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    Local Time:
    4:33 PM
    Okay. Here's the answers to your questions:

    With the straight fan you can barely feel the air pull through the radiator. With the clutch fan set up you can definitely feel the air come through. I did not try the paper in front of the radiator/condenser. both of these tests were done while idling in park.

    I did not try and stick my hand in front of the oil cooler. that only covers about a 1/4 of the surface area of the condenser, but it is also a good couple inches away from the condenser. I can try this test once I get home. This trans cooler has been on truck since we got it. I get conflicting stories as too when this cooling issue started to rise. I got everything from when the engine was changed, to the original fan clutch going out, to when the radiator was changed out.

    Once the thermostat opens up you can see coolant flow. It is pretty slow at first (when the gauge is reading normal) but then you can see the coolant speed up drastically as soon as the gauge starts to move past where it normally rides.

    The truck has had regular flushes every 3-5 years since we got it in 92. The radiator was new as of 2001 at 177000 miles I believe (I believe that is close, I dont have the maintenance records on me today). I just completed a flush/clean as of this past weekend.
     
  4. mopar505

    mopar505 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    68
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
    Location:
    pa
    Local Time:
    4:33 PM
    well, it sounds as though you have good water movement thru the system. that says pump and stat are working. Was the radiator replaced by you or PO ? Was it the same capacity/volume ? On the air movement. I think "part" of your problem is with the trans cooler now "ALSO" in front of the radiator. So you are now pulling thru two other cooling units ( condenser and trans cooler) before it passes thru the radiator. There has to be a reduction in CFM with those two in front. Also you are now pulling warm/hot air thru radiator making its job more rigorous. If it can be done easily, i would move the trans cooler to a place it still catches air but not in front of the rad. As you stand now i would focus on air movement thru the rad and cooling capacity of your existing rad. here is where i stuck my trans cooler. Still catches air with out blocking flow. trans cooler.jpg
     
  5. carfreak6970

    carfreak6970 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    295
    Likes Received:
    40
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2014
    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    Local Time:
    4:33 PM
    Radiator was done by my dad in 2001. Now is it the same capacity? That I do not know... Knowing my dad he probably went with the cheapest one he could find. So there is a good chance it may not have the same capacity. I do not believe the core has the same amount of rows. but then again the original radiator should of been a copper/brass unit, where as this is a single row aluminum.

    Ill keep that cooler placement in mind. The cooler has been in the spot it is currently before he got the truck in 92. Though I get conflicting stories on when this cooling issue started, I do know it wasnt always like this. Which is why I am thinking the cooler placement isnt the main cause. But at this point I am willing to try something that doesnt involve replacing parts at random.
     
  6. mopar505

    mopar505 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    68
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
    Location:
    pa
    Local Time:
    4:33 PM
    ok, moving the trans cooler should not hurt anything. But it will provide additional air flow with it being out of the way. I was questioning that 1 row aluminum radiator and its capacity? seems a bit on the short side for a 360 to me? What size tubes dose it have in it?if it worked all these years, and now there is trouble it may well have internal corrosion inhibiting the heat transfer. no one has mentioned the timing/tune on the truck. i am not up to speed on the newer stuff so maybe someone will chime in if this is even a possibility?
     
  7. carfreak6970

    carfreak6970 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    295
    Likes Received:
    40
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2014
    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    Local Time:
    4:33 PM
    I am on another forum that deals with these TBI trucks. Timing is controlled by the computer, but you can still check base timing to see if the timing chain that was installed was to spec (I am guessing thats what you can determine with checking the timing at idle on this set up). You can check fuel pressure which I am sure can affect your mixture, and check your O2 sensor is reading properly. I believe I can handle the fuel pressure and timing checks, how ever I have yet to figure out how to check and read the O2 sensor and what all that tells you.

    is there a way to check tube sizes? I do believe the radiator is a little small for this application (especially with the condenser in front of that).

    And that is where I am stumped. I can not get a good solid answer on when these cooling issues started. It ranged from when a remanufactured engine was installed (around 98) , to when the radiator was replaced (2001) , to when the original clutch went out (around 95-99). There are plenty of other things that were done to the truck between then and now that could affect it.

    From what I did gather is that people have much better luck with the stock 5 blade fan than any other clutch fan. The general thought is that the radiator in there currently is not up to snuff for sitting in traffic in hot weather with the a/c on. So I can address those issues. However its going to be a couple weeks before I can get to the original fan (at my parents place) and going to take a little more time to source a radiator and get the funds for it... by that time the conditions of sitting in traffic in the hot weather with the a/c on will be passed us, so I wouldnt be able to verify if the changes corrected the issue until next summer.
     
  8. mopar505

    mopar505 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    68
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
    Location:
    pa
    Local Time:
    4:33 PM
    on the tube sizes, pop the cap and look down in the rad. Should be able to get a good guess. 1" is what i'm thinking you should have? even at 1" i do not believe you have enough capacity.