Flat tappet to roller cam:

[dukeboy440]

So long story short. I’ve decided to abandon the flat tappet cam for my 440 build and go roller .

Combo.

440 bored .030 over
Zero decked
L2355 forged pistons , expected compression ratio of 10.0:1
Refurb LY rods, shot peened and equipped with ARB rod bolts
Stock forged 68 factory stroke crank with ARP main studs. Internally balanced
King cam and main bearings
Edlebrock Performer RPM 88cc heads. Port match, bowl blended and lightly polished
Roller Rockers: 1:5 ratio
Holley street dominator intake, ported and polished runners, port matched to the heads, 1 inch spacer
Holley Sniper EFI

The car:
74 Dart Swinger;

Gerst Tubular front suspension
Custom Watts parallel 4 link rear
Viking dual adjustable coil overs front and rear.
Dana 60 rear with 4.10 Trac Lock
T56 Magnum with .68 6th gear.
275/35/18s all around
Fiberglass hood, front bumpers

I’d estimate the completed weight to be around 3100 pounds .

Originally was planning on running a Comp Flat tappet, XE285 grind.

COMP Cams Xtreme Energy 285HL Specifications

• Part Number: 23-228-4 (often packaged as a kit)
• Cam Type: Hydraulic Flat Tappet
• Advertised Duration: 285° Intake / 297° Exhaust
• Duration @ .050" Lift: 241° Intake / 247° Exhaust
• Intake Valve Lift (Factory Rocker): 0.545"
• Exhaust Valve Lift (Factory Rocker): 0.545"
• Lobe Separation: 110 Degrees

Car use: street strip, autoX but needs to be able to cruise coast to coast.

So what would be a comparable cam to the XE285 but in a roller version

 

[Garrett Ellison]

Nice combination! Are you looking to go with hydraulic or solid roller?

 

[dukeboy440]

Nice combination! Are you looking to go with hydraulic or solid roller?

No preference. Whichever would be the most durable . Don’t care about noise , it’s gonna have purple hornies on it haha

 

[dukeboy440]

I’m leaning towards this cam

COMP Cams XR294HR





Specs

• Duration @ .050: 242° / 248°
• Advertised duration: 294° / 300°
• Lobe separation: 110°
• Lift with 1.5 rockers: .540 / .562
• Lift with your 1.6 rockers: about .576 / .600

 

[dukeboy440]

Or




Isky Hydraulic Roller — 244° / 248° @ .050


Specs

• Duration @ .050: 244° / 248°
• Advertised: 292° / 296°
• Lift (1.5 rocker): .505 / .530
• Lobe center: 106°

1.6 rockers, lift .538 / .565

 

[JDMopar]

I'd lean towards the Isky. Comp has gotten a worse reputation than that one gal that was in every high school....lol. Look into Morel Hydraulic rollers no matter who's cam you pic. You will need valve springs to match the hydro rollers vs a flat tappet. It would be a good idea to bush the lifter bores also, to restrict the oil a little. I put a Bullet hydro roller in my 273, with Morel lifters and bushed bores and have no regrets.

 

[TT5.9mag]

For a stick shift car I’d forget about a lobe center down around 106. Especially if you drive it a lot. The comp roller on a 110 will be easier on the clutch, even though you’ll have a lot of starter gear with 4.10s and the T56 first gear (2.66 or 2.97).
I like the lift that the comp has also compared to the Isky, you have a decent head, take advantage of it. My vote is the comp if I had to pick one of those two.

 

[PRH]

The two options listed are both about 8-10* longer than what I’d recommend for a car with a fairly low cruise rpm, and EFI.

 

[mopowers]

Keep in mind a lot of times custom cams are cheaper than shelf grinds. Pick up a lobe catalog from your cam company of choice, get what you really want, and save a couple bucks. It's a win-win.

 

[dukeboy440]

Keep in mind a lot of times custom cams are cheaper than shelf grinds. Pick up a lobe catalog from your cam company of choice, get what you really want, and save a couple bucks. It's a win-win.

Hmmm not a bad idea. I’m gonna give Oregon Cam grinders a call.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I wouldn't use hydraulic anything in anything had I the resources to go roller. Solid all week long and twice on Sunday.

 

[dukeboy440]

I wouldn't use hydraulic anything in anything had I the resources to go roller. Solid all week long and twice on Sunday.

Noted. Why?

 

[dukeboy440]

The two options listed are both about 8-10* longer than what I’d recommend for a car with a fairly low cruise rpm, and EFI.

I’m open to other options. Brands specs etc

 

[RustyRatRod]

Noted. Why?

More power from get to go AND you don't have to worry about any hydraulic lifter malfunction issues.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I’m open to other options. Brands specs etc

Good. Then I would call Scheider or Oregon and let them recommend a grind.

 

[RBConvert]

For a stick shift car I’d forget about a lobe center down around 106. Especially if you drive it a lot. The comp roller on a 110 will be easier on the clutch, even though you’ll have a lot of starter gear with 4.10s and the T56 first gear (2.66 or 2.97).
I like the lift that the comp has also compared to the Isky, you have a decent head, take advantage of it. My vote is the comp if I had to pick one of those two.

2X what he said. A 106 LSA will give a rough idle and low vacuum, a problem if you're running power brakes. Both those cams, but namely the Isky, have weak lobe lifts relative to the duration, especially for a roller.
To research some nice roller cam grinds, go to HughesEngines.com. I'm not necessarily recommending them, although I do have a Hughes cam in both the Dart and the Coronet. Their owner, Dave Hughes, isn't the most charming person on the phone so if you have questions or need advice, be prepared. Another resource is Mike Beachel at B3 Racing; I've bought product from him and he's the polar opposite of Hughes; a great asset to the Mopar community.

 

[RustyRatRod]

For something like a 440 build like this for the street, I'd run a 112 LSA. It'll give a stronger vacuum signal and have better manners and it won't affect the idle quality "that" much being a solid roller, It's gonna sound nasty anyway. A strong vacuum signal is always a good thing, regardless of whether you run power brakes. Also, a wider LSA offers a stronger bottom end response and a flatter torque curve. Just some things to ponder on.

 

[dukeboy440]

For something like a 440 build like this for the street, I'd run a 112 LSA. It'll give a stronger vacuum signal and have better manners and it won't affect the idle quality "that" much being a solid roller, It's gonna sound nasty anyway. A strong vacuum signal is always a good thing, regardless of whether you run power brakes. Also, a wider LSA offers a stronger bottom end response and a flatter torque curve. Just some things to ponder on.

I’m running a hydroboost , so I don’t need vacuum. Forgot to mention that. But I’ll definitely mention it to Ken and Oregon when I talk to him

 

[RustyRatRod]

I’m running a hydroboost , so I don’t need vacuum. Forgot to mention that. But I’ll definitely mention it to Ken and Oregon when I talk to him

Either way, on the street and gettin in to larger cubes, IMO a wider LSA works better. It'll work fine either way.

 

[dukeboy440]

Either way, on the street and gettin in to larger cubes, IMO a wider LSA works better. It'll work fine either way.

So shoot for a 112, got it.

She still gonna have a nice lopey idle?

 

[RustyRatRod]

So shoot for a 112, got it.

She still gonna have a nice lopey idle?

Uhh...yeah. I'd do like a 112 and 250-260 @.050 using a "street" lobe. That's important to tell your grinder. Street lobe.

 

[Kern Dog]

So long story short. I’ve decided to abandon the flat tappet cam for my 440 build and go roller.

I'm right there with you. No offense to the FABO crowd, but have you checked this thread over at FBBO ?

I'm getting close to switching to a roller cam in the big block!

The two options listed are both about 8-10* longer than what I’d recommend for a car with a fairly low cruise rpm, and EFI.

There is some really good advice in that thread but beware, just about every thread I start about a project gets really L-O-N-G.

2X what he said. A 106 LSA will give a rough idle and low vacuum, a problem if you're running power brakes. Both those cams, but namely the Isky, have weak lobe lifts relative to the duration, especially for a roller.
To research some nice roller cam grinds, go to HughesEngines.com. I'm not necessarily recommending them, although I do have a Hughes cam in both the Dart and the Coronet. Their owner, Dave Hughes, isn't the most charming person on the phone so if you have questions or need advice, be prepared. Another resource is Mike Beachel at B3 Racing; I've bought product from him and he's the polar opposite of Hughes; a great asset to the Mopar community.

Good advice there, too.

 

[dukeboy440]

Uhh...yeah. I'd do like a 112 and 250-260 @.050 using a "street" lobe. That's important to tell your grinder. Street lobe.

What lift do you recommend?

 

[RustyRatRod]

What lift do you recommend?

Crapped if I know. It's like some secret CIA stuff with the details on your heads. You want a football field of advice based on information the size of the head of a pin.

 

[dukeboy440]

2X what he said. A 106 LSA will give a rough idle and low vacuum, a problem if you're running power brakes. Both those cams, but namely the Isky, have weak lobe lifts relative to the duration, especially for a roller.
To research some nice roller cam grinds, go to HughesEngines.com. I'm not necessarily recommending them, although I do have a Hughes cam in both the Dart and the Coronet. Their owner, Dave Hughes, isn't the most charming person on the phone so if you have questions or need advice, be prepared. Another resource is Mike Beachel at B3 Racing; I've bought product from him and he's the polar opposite of Hughes; a great asset to the Mopar community.

i find it interesting your statement about "not necessarily recommending them". Is there a problem with them? I am considering Hughes heavily right now. For me, its down to Hughes, Scheider and Oregon. definitely going the custom grind approach.