Yes I enjoyed watching his 69 Charger 383 series, learned a lot.
Flat tappet to roller cam:
- Thread starter dukeboy440
- Start date
-
Going by what you’ve said before about roller lifters, I’d think that a lot of the drag and drive crowd are letting the rpm run too low for extended periods, too.
Yup.
I’ve said this a million times. When I see valve train failures, especially lifter failures it’s almost always one of two things.
Spring load has went down, the valve train goes chaotic and the lifter fails.
Here’s a big thing most guys don’t know. The valve train can go chaotic at different rpm. It can go chaotic at multiple rpm.
You can have the valve train going berserk at say 5800 rpm and it barely pulls to 6000.
Change the pushrods to a bigger diameter, thicker wall or both and it will zip right up to 6500, nice and clean.
I’ve seen throwing a .060 shim in fixes a weird spot in the power curve.
Going from steel to Ti, or Ti to steel retainers changes the entire resonance frequency of the valve train and fix the chaos.
The other issue is junk parts.
A roller with a .750 wheel that has enough diameter to take a .800 wheel won’t take as much abuse and will fail.
There is a reason why there are lifters over 1 inch in diameter with .9XX wheels or larger.
You get a bigger wheel, which lowers surface feet per minute the wheel has to travel.
A bigger wheel gets a bigger axle. The bigger axel is stronger.
The bigger wheel and axle allows more needles to bear more load, or more bearing area from the bushing to support more load.
I’m still baffled by Chrysler guys using a lifter with a GM wheel because it’s cheaper when the GM guys (for the most part) are buying .904 diameter lifters so they don’t fail parts
It’s cheaper every time to buy the better part. Buy once, cry once.
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
Did you mean you’ll take a needle bearing lifter any day? You said bushed and have been saying needle. I’m ok really with anyone using what works for them as long as it’s done properly and oil control and valve springs are two things that must be done correctly. You can’t just throw expensive parts in there and expect em to last.
What I’ve noticed that causes most of the lifter failures (or cam failures for that matter) is the springs going away. When the spring leaves the chat, all kinds of bad **** happens. That’s the hardest part to keep alive and working in a 1500hp drag n drive engine. But the lifter will get the blame.
Nope. My hands are so sore right now I can barely type.
I meant to say I’ll take a bushed ROCKER any day.
I need to go fix that.
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
Ok got it. Wholeheartedly agree there.
BSB67
Well-Known Member
I hear about solid roller needle bearing failures all the time. I’m not sure if the failures are frequent, or just the same story repeated a bunch of times by people on the internet.
Every time I hear this about lifter needle bearing failures, I ask: what Brand and part number for the lifter, what spring pressure, what cam lobe profile, what rpm. I have yet to get a complete response.
I don’t know with certainty, but suspect that lifter quality is the main reason, followed by the details of the operating conditions. I also believe that a good quality needle bearing will survive in most applications.
I have Red Zones without oil feed. Several thousand miles so far. Car has 3.23 gear and spends most of its life below 2000 rpm. Shift at 6700 rpm, but relatively low hp. Seems to work, so far. Unless something changes, this is how I’ ll do it next time too.
Every time I hear this about lifter needle bearing failures, I ask: what Brand and part number for the lifter, what spring pressure, what cam lobe profile, what rpm. I have yet to get a complete response.
I don’t know with certainty, but suspect that lifter quality is the main reason, followed by the details of the operating conditions. I also believe that a good quality needle bearing will survive in most applications.
I have Red Zones without oil feed. Several thousand miles so far. Car has 3.23 gear and spends most of its life below 2000 rpm. Shift at 6700 rpm, but relatively low hp. Seems to work, so far. Unless something changes, this is how I’ ll do it next time too.
I was going to recommend Isky Red Zone or BAM. I am planning on BAM 2016-16BB1 DLC lifters.
Icetech
Well-Known Member
I got the small block version of those.. Spencer uses the Isky in his hemi builds without issue.. they use their own bronze alloy for the bushings. The thing bugging me about the BAMs are they recommend taking them out now and then to check the DLC coating, which i already know i won't do
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2007
- Messages
- 64,255
- Reaction score
- 44,967
I need to call b3 on that, he was making geometry correction kits last I knew
Howards is like most all the rest. They don't "make" anything. They grind their shafts, but I have no clue what lifters they use.
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2007
- Messages
- 64,255
- Reaction score
- 44,967
Finding the larger wheel lifters in stock proved impossible. If I wasn’t on a schedule, I would and infact, Bullet has some on back order for me, but no one knows when they’ll be in stock.
So for now, I’ll run the risk of the smaller wheel. For now.
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2007
- Messages
- 64,255
- Reaction score
- 44,967
Makes them tried and true flat tappets look better and better. lol
I suspected as much. I knew they were good quality whatever they were.
I'm trying to decide if I want to go flat tappet or roller on my big block build. Duration will be lower than 270 but going with 1.7 rocker ratio. I'm interested in the PRW brand Vizard recommends but have also seen people on this forum having wear issues.
Why such a high ratio? Why not choose a camshaft that has the lift to begin with?
I want to try what Brian Salter and David Vizard recommend for a realizable performance street engine with durability. Their recommendation is to use a higher ratio so your camshaft base circle isn't smaller with long lobes.
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2007
- Messages
- 64,255
- Reaction score
- 44,967
The way the gentleman from Howard’s talked, I think Morel builds the entire thing for them
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2007
- Messages
- 64,255
- Reaction score
- 44,967
The problem is now there’s only 1-2 foundries actually making cores and most of those are Chinese cores. They maybe cut here in the US but the metal is forged/cast in Brazil or China these days. At least a lot of them for the name brands are. The grades of metal are definitely weaker. I think that combined with the oil changes these days make running a flat tappet too risky. There’s been so many wiped flat tappets, most shops won’t warranty any engine with a flat trappet
I sure couldn't see the nonsense in having different lifter components made by different companies. That seems counter intuitive at best.
That's why I won't use a new one anymore. At this point, all I'll use is a reground factory cam or a known good aftermarket core like the one in my truck now. It's an old 1980s Crane fireball.
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2007
- Messages
- 64,255
- Reaction score
- 44,967
I’ve got an 80s isky laying around somewhere
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2007
- Messages
- 64,255
- Reaction score
- 44,967
Did you talk them over the phone or just what their website shows? I found when calling around the last 2 days, the websites weren’t accurate
-
Similar threads
- Locked
