1. Dusterdenovo

    Dusterdenovo Contentedly Old School

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    I didn't do that this time around, because I am replacing with the same* TC so figured a smooth swap. Originally, I did have to slightly egg out a couple of the holes for the after market "production variances". Having the flex plate bolted to the crank and the TC pilot hub engaged in the back of the crank is the only way I can think of (with my cardboard and PlayDoh) to ensure that both pieces are concentric before starting to massage bolt holes.

    *almost the same
     
  2. Garrett Ellison

    Garrett Ellison Amateur driver on public roadway, do not imitate.. FABO Gold Member

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    Precision ground hardened flat washers would work along with good medium strength thread locker. I’m still not overwhelmed with confidence about the quality control for the internal tolerances, though.
     
  3. Oldmanmopar

    Oldmanmopar Going left turning right FABO Gold Member

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    Send the converter back. That converter will not spin concentric with the notched flex plate for a 360. The flex torsion of the bolts pulling the plate back against the converter will not be even. Just looking at the converter assembly you can see the thing is not that impressive. It looks like a converter shop made it using a factory converter cut down to create a higher stall. Right here is a good example of cutting converter cost and the problems you run into. ATI anti balloon converter was $2000 . Worth every penny spent. There are cheaper converters better than the one you have. I have seen my motor go over 9000 Rpm's . Smooth as a well balance electric motor. "Neal Chance" converter would be my first choice but my 65 year old feet are not worth that much

    A good example is take an old electric motor and install a balanced pulley and run it. Then drill a small hole in the pulley and run it. Now just thing what that is doing to the motor and bearings with the harmonics of the out of balancing that you are creating. Send the converter back spend a little more money on one that fits properly. I myself would never use a spacer or shim on those bolts. Did you ever see a what a piece of clutch plate steel does to the floor of a car with guys running aluminum bells. I have seen them go through dashes and windshields. I would hate to see what one of those shims would do to your toes.

    Picture one of those spacers going through your foot. You could just wear those big Herman Munster shoes. Or put an extension on the throttle pedal. LOL.

    There is a quick fix for everything. Do not apply one here. If you were running a solid flex plate as pictured below without the notch you may get away with pulling it tight safely. But what you have to remember it is called a flex plate for a reason.

    Another thing where are the weights on that 360 converter that calls for that notched 360 flex plate. I don't see them. Unless they are hidden in the pictures

    1DSCN2815.JPG
     
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    • Oldmanmopar

      Oldmanmopar Going left turning right FABO Gold Member

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      I just saw you have a Hughes converter. I have seen some hughes engines come to HTA that literally chewed themselves apart from bad machine work. Good luck. No better then Shadey Dell or the old owners of Indy Cyl. Heads. Its all about the Benjamin's to them.
       
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      • tjpatte

        tjpatte Well-Known Member

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        If the hub of the converter is hard up against the crank, how is the flex plate gonna flex? Would think that is a recipe for a wiped thrust bearing.
         
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        • oldkimmer

          oldkimmer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          I agree with Steve. I have run washers long time ago. Send the verter back. Flexplate is on right for sure. Kim

          C1067B95-B599-421B-BB5D-6ECFF1A67D0D.jpeg

          DB588AD8-0B2C-4A48-985F-28D279E91EC9.jpeg

          BEC9E541-BE68-446D-BB8F-2F23D5E9ADC0.jpeg
           
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          • Jadaharabi

            Jadaharabi FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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            Hughes engines and Hughes converters are two totally different companies. But I agree Hughes engines kind of suck.

            As for where is the weights on the converter for the 360. Due to the fact he has the notched flexplate he must then run a neutral balanced converter.

            Once the converter is bolted up to the flexplate the torque converter becomes one with the back of the crankshaft. This has no effect on the thrust bearing as the converter can still float if necessary on the front bushing of the pump in the transmission.
             
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            • tjpatte

              tjpatte Well-Known Member

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              If that’s the case then why have a flex plate to begin with?
               
            • Jadaharabi

              Jadaharabi FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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              Maybe a better name would be adapter plate. Since it is adapting the converter to the engine.

              Or on the newer Magnum Motors you could call it a balance plate. That is the only motor from the factory that uses the flexplate to balance the engine externally.
               
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              • oldkimmer

                oldkimmer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                Magnums yes, but Ford and Chevy have used the same system as the magnums since the 60s. If the op bolts up that flexplate with that much space he will for sure take out the thrust bearing. It’s the same principle as a flywheel and clutch. Kim
                 
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                • Jadaharabi

                  Jadaharabi FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                  I could care less what Ford and Chevy did.
                  I'm talkin about a 360. And as for a clutch acting like a torque converter I don't hardly think so. You are not putting pressure on that Center thrust bearing with the clutch assembly until you push in the clutch pedal and put pressure against the pressure plate.
                  The torque converter is directly connected to the crankshaft.
                   
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                  • tjpatte

                    tjpatte Well-Known Member

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                    The end of my 360 crank and torque converter hub would disagree with you. When I get a chance I’ll post up pictures of both and the wear marks where the hub was rubbing on the crank.
                     
                  • oldkimmer

                    oldkimmer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                    If the torque converter didn’t put pressure on the thrust bearing there would be no need for antiballoning plates. A tq converter multiples the tq and therefor expands alittle while applying however much by the tq/rpm of the motor. The more tq ur motor makes the the converter expands. Kim
                     
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                    • oldkimmer

                      oldkimmer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                      Can u explain why the thrust bearing goes out on an automatic trans vehical then? I’m saying on 1 that all the clearances on the crank and rods were within spec. I think not. Kim
                       
                    • Jadaharabi

                      Jadaharabi FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                      An anti ballooning plate on your torque converter has nothing to do with the thrust bearing inside the motor.
                       
                    • Jadaharabi

                      Jadaharabi FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                      Did this happen to an engine that you built? Because Chrysler has millions of vehicles on the road that do not have that problem.
                       
                    • oldkimmer

                      oldkimmer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                      O
                      Ok, I can totally see ur lost here.
                       
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                      • Dusterdenovo

                        Dusterdenovo Contentedly Old School

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                        It looks like lots of folks have this same B&M flex plate lying around loose. Can someone put a straightedge across the back of their flexplate and let me know if theirs is in fact perfectly flat?

                        As per my post #10 above, the "flat" section of my flex plate is a little bit concave from the engine side although I can't put a straightedge on the back with it bolted to the crank.

                        I didn't check for perfect flatness when I originally installed it, and am wondering if my flex plate is somehow to blame for this poor fit now??

                        Covering all the bases. Thanks.
                         
                      • Jadaharabi

                        Jadaharabi FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                        Please post pictures.
                        I have taken apart engines and trannys that I had to pry the converter out of the crank. So if yours is moving around at the crank you have an alignment problem or something.
                         
                      • oldkimmer

                        oldkimmer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                        No siree bob. That’s because the flexplate and converter wasnt pulled into place by the bolts. U have to remember that the converters were never subjected to the abuse they are now as hp and tq were way less.
                         
                      • Jadaharabi

                        Jadaharabi FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                        I can understand if it was not properly assembled that there would be a problem.
                         
                      • oldkimmer

                        oldkimmer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                        The plate I posted pics of is for a cast crank 440. It is perfectly flat. I also have a 440 source plate and it is flat also. Kim
                         
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                        • oldkimmer

                          oldkimmer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                          What about the ones that were properly assembled and ate the thrust bearing? Please explain away. I would like to hear ur theory. Kim
                           
                        • Jadaharabi

                          Jadaharabi FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                          I have never seen a a Thrust bearing go bad in a factory application. I have seen them bad in a modified or rebuilt engine. But I blame that on the incompetence of the person that put the motor together without checking the clearances. Ever buy a turned crankshaft that had too much clearance on the thrust bearing. It happens all the time. It's one of those things that you just naturally check after you run across your first one.
                           
                        • Garrett Ellison

                          Garrett Ellison Amateur driver on public roadway, do not imitate.. FABO Gold Member

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                          There should be some free space between the torque converter and the flex plate before tightening the flex plate to converter bolts. Enough to side the converter back and for it to spin freely without making contact with anything on its drive surface. This is to prevent thermal and hydraulic expansion from fouling the front pump and/or main input drives or the crank thrust bearing. The anti-ballooning plates are to prevent hydraulic pressure from deforming the torque converter shell and taking up this available gap and cause the same condition. But, at any rate, there are good quality parts store over the counter converters based on the factory hi stall converters that will do everything the Hughes converter will do and then some for less money, and if I were looking at an entry level torque converter from a performer transmission company, I would go with turbo action. But if you really want a good torque converter purpose built for your combination, call Precision Converter Concepts or PTC (Performance Torque Converter). One of the single best performance improvements you can make to the car.
                           
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