Flywheel/Clutch ideas

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mhuppertz

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Had a 440 with 23 spline A833 and a Lakewood scatter shield going in my '69 Dart.
Engine will have probably less than 600HP to the wheels and will be a mostly hot street, occasional strip car.
What size flywheel should I get, and how much clutch will I need to close to 600 lb/ft torque?
 
"Oh man...this isn't going to go well....."
Is this a hornets nest question?
Not trying to stir anything up, just looking for what has worked for others with a Big Block and A body.
 
wouldn’t a 10” bell be about the max for an A body?
 
The Lakewood fit in my Dart after I flattened the pinch weld back against the trans tunnel.
(Pro tip: do this BEFORE installing the engine and bellhousing) ;) Their instructions say that it can be used with a 10.5" flywheel, and that an 11" can be used but it's such a close fit that some grinding on the housing may be needed.

I put in a Centerforce DF clutch and a steel flywheel - don't remember the weight though, but I think it's the one 440source has (27 lb). Centerforce says their clutch can handle 590 ft-lb. Not sure how long it will last with hard launches though.
 
Ok, I hate myself but I'll do it.

Number 1. You DO NOT need a steel flywheel. If you hate your own guts, then by all means, use a steel flywheel.

You need an aluminum flywheel. Period. I'm hoping you have a 2.65/2.66 first gear box. If you have the 2.44/2.45 first gear, find something with a lower first gear. All you need is a 130 tooth flywheel. And again, it needs to be aluminum.

I wouldn't use a diaphragm pressure plate if you put a gun to my head. Ever.

If you get a Borg & Beck pressure plate, get it set up with 2200-2400 pounds of base pressure and no centrifugal assist, and run a rag disc.

All those gimmicks and marketing hyped dual friction discs are just that.

If you are going to put bite on the car, and you don't want to buy a 2000 dollar clutch (which is what I recommend and use BTW) and you don't want to crap parts on the ground every time you make a pass at the drag strip, buy a Clutch Tamer and teach yourself how to use it.

My opinions and they are worth exactly what you paid for them.

YR
 
mbaird said:
Just Trolling ya ....LMAO.
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I know it...you love trolling my dumb self.

But I can't help myself. It's not 1979 any more and steel flywheels and junk clutches make people hate stick cars.

I talked to a guy in Friday who used to run a Super Stock Fairlane back in "the day". He had 3 Doug Nash 5 speeds, one in the car, one on the way back to be repaired, and one on the way back to him.

He quit stick racing because he had junk clutches. Well, h didn't quit racing, he switched to an automatic and eventually a power glide. That's what happens.

So if I can convince someone to not buy parts breaking stuff to start with, maybe we'd have more stick guys.

I know, I'm coo coo for Cocoa Puffs. My wife tells me that everyday.
 
Although I dont run an aluminum flywheel I am using an 18# lb Mcleod SFI
 
Here's an estimation of the minimum clutch clamp pressure required for typical 10.4" disc to hold 600ft/lbs...
...organic- 3056lbs
...carbon Kevlar/ceramic DF- 2429lbs
...organic/puck style iron DF- 2542lbs
...ceramic- 2048lbs
...puck style iron- 2077lbs
...full face iron- 2091lbs

You also have to take into consideration that a B&B PP's coil springs will lose clamp pressure as the disc wears, so clamp pressure must be even higher when the disc is new just to make sure you still have enough clamp to hold 600 when the disc is near the end of it's life. The result is that your clutch pedal will be it's stiffest when the disc is new, and easiest to push when the disc is worn out.

With a diaphragm PP, it's Belleville spring design typically gains clamp pressure as the disc starts to wear, then at about the mid-point in disc wear, the trend reverses and starts to gradually lose clamp pressure. At the end of the disc's life, clamp will be back to about where it started. The result is that your clutch pedal will be easiest to push when the disc is new and also when it's worn out, but even at the mid-point of the disc's life when pedal effort will be at it's stiffest, it will still be easier to push than an equivalent B&B PP with a new disc. Downside is the typical diaphragm doesn't like engine braking, thin straps between the cover and pressure ring are easy to bend when they see reverse torque during clutch engagement.

Grant
 
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yellow rose said:
That's almost a 50% reduction in rotating weight from a 30 pound wheel. That's a lot if you think about it, and that's a good thing.
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This is good for speed, but it's mostly a street car, the flywheel will make the car easier to drive if it's heavier. I have a 340 with a 2.97 1st T56 Magnum a 3.23 ring and 26" tall tires and that's an easy to drive combo with a 29 lb flywheel. When I had a 2.66:1 A833 in there it was not so easy to launch smoothly...and I have EFI that's tuned well so it's not related to how the engine runs. So again this is a preference thing.

A dual disk is probably the best setup however they are spendy and a lot more work to set up
 
I too with my lil 367, find the factory FW a pleasure; it makes taking off with my 10.97 starter gear, a blip/dump it and go deal. I have enough starter gear and engine torque to run a lot less FW, but I really like the lil launches a blip and dump makes; and it really stabilizes my 230* cammed engine at 500/550 rpm.
However, that said, IDK about the OPs combo. I'll guess he has more torque everywhere than I do,lol,
plus the BB already has more flywheel internally.
Ima thinking YR nailed it.
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But I just gotta repeat; A manual trans car has the engine married to the tires at all times that the clutch pedal is up. There is no fluid coupling. That means, in bumper to bumper traffic, with 3.55s, you can get into situations where you're gonna be riding the stinking pedal, a lot, especially if your engine needs to idle at over 800rpm.

I solved this problem in two ways; more starter gear and slower idle speed.
I grabbed a Commando trans with it's 16% lower first gear (3.09 versus 2.66), and
I installed a dash-mounted, dial-back, timing device, that has a range of 15*. When I need a slower idle speed I simply take out timing. Thus I can get to 4mph; And the heavy flywheel, just keeps on turning. No more toeing the pedal, and heating the clutch.
Without these three together, My car in it's current combo, as a DD, which it was for many years, would not be near as much fun, or entertaining.
Yes, I could run more rear gear, but you know how that goes.... I even bought a GVod and ran 4.30s, and more, for times. But I like running 65=2240 in a DD because 2240 is just after reversion quits, and gives me a shot at the best possible long-range mpgs. As a DD that was very important to me, cuz I spent an hour on the hiway every day commuting to work and back. Another thing that was important to me was to burn 87E10. Between those two,over more than 100,000 miles, I saved a big old pot of cash. Which,of course, I spent on the kids. 40 bucks a week doesn't sound like much, but it adds up to 2100 per year, times many many years.

What's this got to do with flywheel/clutch ideas?
Well; firstly, you automatic guys got it easy. Your tune below stall can be totally fubarred, and you might never even know it. But us M/T guys spend outrageous amounts of time in that lower half of the powerband. So it's gotta be right to be fun.Else the car turns into an occasional driver.
IDK anything about BB cars, but I know a bit about tuning stuff. And a bit about hard to appreciate combos. ( which I'm not alluding to for the OP),just saying. And M/T cars are always a bit of a chore. The Dyno-tune is just one tiny aspect of street-driving, and the bigger and/or more powerful the engine, the less applicable it is. The manual trans car, running on the street, with 3.55s, is gonna spend most of it's life between idle and 3500 rpm, with occasional forays to 4000 (35mph in first gear), and ever less time at higher rpms. In fact with 28" tires 5800 rpm is 51 in first, and 71 in second. These are not speeds commonly found in any city in Manitoba, where I live.
As to running more gear, think about it; Op mentioned an unfathomable to me, amount of torque. Which is gonna annihilate the tires. With any gear.
 
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Do you guys know anyone who's got a blow-proof bell housing for sale here? I'm swapping in a 383 to my car soon
 
yellow rose said:
If you have the bell housing to take the 143 you can use it......
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If using TTI headers you may have mini starter fit issues on the 143 tooth 11" as I understand form their install footnotes.
I have an 11" 143 in my LW 3 piece with Hooker FW's .
 
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