Ford conundrum???...

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j par

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I've been helping a customer do a frame of restoration on a 72 Ford highboy. He pretty much did a copy of what I was doing with my power wagon. At any rate he had a 360 rebuilt by my engine builder. Complete stock factory 30 over rebuild.. we put headers on it the factory intake with the cheap Chinese two barrel and did a Chevy one wire distributor up front...
The break in went like clockwork and everything was running absolutely perfect. The timing was 12 initial and 32 all in,.. he was enjoying the truck and everything was going well. Running starting driving everything.. he starts it up the other day and it was idling kind of low and anytime he tried to give it gas it would stall... I instantly thought it was a vacuum leak. I tried to talk him through all the different scenarios and possible problems over the phone and of course give him a hard time about the cheap Chinese carburetor....
So he called me out today and we started going over everything. I was really feeling a fuel delivery problem but everything kept checking out. I could get it to run at idle a very slow seemingly rough idle and anytime I gave it gas just tried to slowly rev it up it pops better shoot out the carburetor install... I pull the carburetor open it up and see nothing going on... I checked the fuel pressure from the fuel pump and it's fine. We pull the valve covers and crack it over to see if there's like a stuck valve or something and nothing everything was fine... I take the distributor cap off and look underneath to see if I have a broken rotor or something remind you everything is brand new...
Nothing. And as a matter of fact the first thing I did when I walked up to the truck was put my hand in a distributor and try and turn it to see if the timing got off and it was Rock solid...
Completely exhausting everything I knew as the last ditch I should grab me a sharpie and I marked the distributor to make sure if I turned it that I could put it right back where it was as I had personally timed this and knew it was dead on. I advance it a half inch and it runs perfect????
HOW IN THE HECK DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE?..
 
I've been helping a customer do a frame of restoration on a 72 Ford highboy. He pretty much did a copy of what I was doing with my power wagon. At any rate he had a 360 rebuilt by my engine builder. Complete stock factory 30 over rebuild.. we put headers on it the factory intake with the cheap Chinese two barrel and did a Chevy one wire distributor up front...
The break in went like clockwork and everything was running absolutely perfect. The timing was 12 initial and 32 all in,.. he was enjoying the truck and everything was going well. Running starting driving everything.. he starts it up the other day and it was idling kind of low and anytime he tried to give it gas it would stall... I instantly thought it was a vacuum leak. I tried to talk him through all the different scenarios and possible problems over the phone and of course give him a hard time about the cheap Chinese carburetor....
So he called me out today and we started going over everything. I was really feeling a fuel delivery problem but everything kept checking out. I could get it to run at idle a very slow seemingly rough idle and anytime I gave it gas just tried to slowly rev it up it pops better shoot out the carburetor install... I pull the carburetor open it up and see nothing going on... I checked the fuel pressure from the fuel pump and it's fine. We pull the valve covers and crack it over to see if there's like a stuck valve or something and nothing everything was fine... I take the distributor cap off and look underneath to see if I have a broken rotor or something remind you everything is brand new...
Nothing. And as a matter of fact the first thing I did when I walked up to the truck was put my hand in a distributor and try and turn it to see if the timing got off and it was Rock solid...
Completely exhausting everything I knew as the last ditch I should grab me a sharpie and I marked the distributor to make sure if I turned it that I could put it right back where it was as I had personally timed this and knew it was dead on. I advance it a half inch and it runs perfect????
HOW IN THE HECK DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE?..

I'd be rechecking some cam timing events. Possible the cam gear slipped or chain jumped? Gear slipping on the distributor?
Some distributor pickups will change timing based on reluctor gap. I don't know what a 1 wire Chevy distributor is, but if it's as Chinese as the carb, I'd be investigating further.

With so few miles, a change that big is a huge red flag.
 
I agree with Phreakish.. Distributor & cam timing.. Could be the cam sprocket has shifted... Did you put a timing light on it? If the timing has moved even thought the distributor body hasn't something is changing & hopefully it's in the distributor...
 
I agree I'm not sure exactly what happened there. I didn't come out with my timing light but I know the double roller didn't jump that's for sure. Way too new. And I don't think if the timing between the cam and the engine got that far off that it would even run. Right now it runs absolutely perfect smooth rev's perfect... The only thing I could think of was the gear on the distributor slipped on the shaft or something?.. I told my customer I probably wouldn't drive this much till I got a timing light on it and just started verifying everything again it was just too strange never seen nothing like this before...
 
I might note here that I'm not using the vacuum advance. Not just yet. My mind goes to something like the vacuum advance was stuck on when I timed it originally and somehow it let go back to normal and ended up retarding?...
Honestly I'm just spitballing at this point...
 
Have seen gm modules throw timing off. Not common but does happen.
 
They slip.

Especially if everything is new and hasn't worn in yet.

I actually leave mine just tight enough to hold but loose enough to move by hand.

Working with that "standard" for a few decades made me very aware of any slippage.
 
I wouldn't discount the carb yet either ,sometimes you cant see the defects. could be junk in the idle circuit etc. can ya throw a spare 600 Holley on and see if there's a difference? i mean after you do everything else and are satumped?
 
Have seen gm modules throw timing off. Not common but does happen.
I've warned him about that module. I've seen it do some weird things and have it have done some weird things in gms many times but just skipping the timing a half inch was definitely a first...
 
Sometimes China parts are what's available. there is a "speed shop" in my hometown that sells chinese goodies. My chevy guy friend loves it. Pertonix distributor yeah!
 
I wouldn't discount the carb yet either ,sometimes you cant see the defects. could be junk in the idle circuit etc. can ya throw a spare 600 Holley on and see if there's a difference? i mean after you do everything else and are satumped?
100% it was the timing...
 
Could the oil pump drive shaft have been holding the distributor up slightly before it fully seated? That's a fairly common occurrence in Ford engines from my experience.
 
And let me make this 100% clear my customers as cheap as a day as long but definitely one of the nicest guys I know. So far the only customer that got me a Christmas present. A personalized Carhartt jacket style shirt... And I was able to trade some of the small things that I charge for like bringing an engine hoist or using my welder for time at his mountain cabin.... The value on his end is far more valuable LOL...
 
Could the oil pump drive shaft have been holding the distributor up slightly before it fully seated? That's a fairly common occurrence in Ford engines from my experience.
You know I was talking it over with my engine builder this morning just because it's such a head scratcher and he's a big Ford guy. We were talking about possibly the roll pin in the distributor gear sharing. He said he'd heard of it happening before and retiring it and then completely losing it about 300 miles further... The next time I get into that truck I do want to pull the distributor. Last night after head scratching and finally getting it running and it was getting late I just left it at that but asked him not to drive it very far...
 
Yeah they have a cast and/ or a steel dist gear i wonder if you could tack weld it etc. I ran into that problem on an engine i did the guy told me he had to lift the dist out and re set it in to get it running . Fords...pshhhh...:thumbsup:
 
You know I was talking it over with my engine builder this morning just because it's such a head scratcher and he's a big Ford guy. We were talking about possibly the roll pin in the distributor gear sharing. He said he'd heard of it happening before and retiring it and then completely losing it about 300 miles further... The next time I get into that truck I do want to pull the distributor. Last night after head scratching and finally getting it running and it was getting late I just left it at that but asked him not to drive it very far...
That would be exactly my concern.
I've shipped a few million parts with roll pins in them and we have issues occasionally. Certain batches just suck. They crack or bend or collapse in some weird way. Friday night shift at the heat treaters I guess.
Coiled pins I've seen collapse and bend, but take a while before they fully let go. When the pin holes are accurate and the pinned part is held tight to the shaft, there's never really a failure. But a sloppy fit or sloppy holes will eat pins like a fat kid at a buffet.
What's the oil pressure like? I'd expect the pin to lose it during a cold start when the oil is super stiff.
 
the thing is if its a windsor that dist gear will press on tight but it still walks around the shaft without that roll pin
 
My customer is a millionaire many times over of course he bought the $79 cheap China One.,
Chances are, that's part of the way he got to be a millionaire

What are the odds the distributor wasn't snugged down from the get go?
 
Windsor engines are not the same as a 360 Ford, it's a truck only engine in the FE family, so would likely have a distributor similar to if not the same as a 390.
 
^^^ It's not just the "cheapo" Chinese stuff either. I have a MSD 8595 billet ready to run dizzy with a 6AL box on the 390FE in my Fairlane. After I freshened up the motor I could not get the MSD dizzy to drop in all the way.. it was tight as heck. I suspected it shipped with the wrong gear installed as the stock dizzy still dropped right in. Several exchanges with MSD support they concluded "core shift" was my issue and wanted noting to do with me afterwards. I ordered the correct MSD gear and installed it.. the MSD dizzy dropped right in first try. I nearly sent them the factory installed gear with a tag that said.. "here's your core shift"...lol.
 
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