I've gone back into research into Gen III Hemi's in A bodies and I don't recall anyone ever throwing a 4-speed in there's. Is this a possible or doable swap? I know the small block 904 and 727's bolt up. I've tried using the search options but was unsuccessful.
Gen III Hemi with 4-speed?
- Thread starter MuuMuu101
- Start date
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72BBSwinger
Well-Known Member
Flywheel availability is the issue. I don't see 11" flywheels for the Gen 3's and I'm not sure what a factory 4 speed small block even used. QuickTime bells I think all use a 10.5" but I don't know if they offer a bell for a Mopar 4 speed.
dwire67
Well-Known Member
Mcleod makes 10.5 and 11" flywheels and quick time has bellhousing for everything but a mopar 4 speed
464208 CHRYSLER 2002-2006 V8 348 ; HEMI 8 Blt Crnk, 143T R/G, Patt: 4,5,8
$491.00
464108 CHRYSLER 2002-2006 V8 348 ; HEMI, 8 Blt Crnk, 130T R/G, Patt: 4,6$411.00
464208 CHRYSLER 2002-2006 V8 348 ; HEMI 8 Blt Crnk, 143T R/G, Patt: 4,5,8
$491.00
joeboy
Well-Known Member
There are a few members running 4spds. Map63vette was I think, and GDemon.... I'm sure they can chime in. I know you need to trim the input shaft, and I think use a hydraulic slave/throw-out. I can't remember what else.
Map63Vette
Well-Known Member
Yep, had a factory 4 speed in mine for a few years. You can use a standard small block bellhousing for a 4 speed, there's just no hole in the block for the top center bolt. It does require a "conversion" flywheel to mate up to the 8 bolt pattern with the stock small block 10.5" clutch. Mopar sells them, not sure who else though. I used the "stock" mechanical linkage as well (will fit around TTI headers), though I had to tweak my Z bar a little. I'm fairly certain my parts weren't original to the car to begin with, so I think a factory stock linkage may fit a little better.
Used a Dakota mini starter and also had to trim the input shaft to use a register style pilot bushing/bearing, nothing real bad. Think I took around 5/8" off the shaft, though I'd measure everything up to be sure.
Used a Dakota mini starter and also had to trim the input shaft to use a register style pilot bushing/bearing, nothing real bad. Think I took around 5/8" off the shaft, though I'd measure everything up to be sure.
Riddler
Project EH-Body
Swifter you commenting on something I said? Lol
Riddler
Riddler
Small block bellhousing,Mcleod throw out bearing,Hydrolic clutch set-up,8-bolt pressure plate-i had steel than went to alum when we stroked the motor,and lots of screwing around because we had the first edition of the Mcleod hydrolic throw out bearing(we were Ginny pigs at the time) we had the trany in and out 8 different times with 6 different bearings from Mcleod,Since then they redesigned it and have had good luck with them.I also had a spacer machined to hold the throw out bearing you can see it in one of the pics behind the throw out bearing--Steve
Buschi340
Well-Known Member
I have a 5 speed too. Redrilled my existing stock Mopar SB flywheel. Didn't knew that time that flywheels were on the market.
Map63Vette
Well-Known Member
Hydraulic clutch isn't necessary as well, but highly helpful. Running a single line to the clutch is definitely easier than the mechanical linkage, but it's doable if you don't want to drop the cash on the few hydraulic throwouts on the market. Some have rigged up external hydraulic slaves as well if you look around in the 4 speed forum.
Map63Vette
Well-Known Member
Most swaps usually end up with fuel injection. If you get the stock computer that's really probably the way to go. There are some plug and play setups finally coming out for reasonable money though (like the Megasquirt Gold). Computer and harness together for it are right around $1200 I believe. You can use a factory harness and cut out what you don't want/need if you feel like it to help cut down some of the cost as well.
Honestly it's almost harder to put a carb on them with the lmited intakes available. Indy, Edelbrock, and XV are about it. The Edelbrock is the cheapest to my knowledge, but it's a dual quad, so any money you save on the intake may go into buying another carb. Indy is ok price-wise, though both it and the XV aren't necessarily the best performing things out there. The XV is pretty well documented to kill low end torque, haven't seen much dyno info on a "stock" Indy.
Honestly it's almost harder to put a carb on them with the lmited intakes available. Indy, Edelbrock, and XV are about it. The Edelbrock is the cheapest to my knowledge, but it's a dual quad, so any money you save on the intake may go into buying another carb. Indy is ok price-wise, though both it and the XV aren't necessarily the best performing things out there. The XV is pretty well documented to kill low end torque, haven't seen much dyno info on a "stock" Indy.
Buschi340
Well-Known Member
but those carb intakes were never dynoed and compared to each other, right?
I have the XV. Reason was single carb and stock apperance to SB engines.
I have the XV. Reason was single carb and stock apperance to SB engines.
Map63Vette
Well-Known Member
Don't believe I've ever seen a "stock to stock" dyno comparison of all the carb intakes side by side. About the most I've seen is a stock intake vs. 6.1 intake vs. XV, but since the stockers are FI and the XV is more aimed toward carbs, the dyno numbers aren't necessarily the fairest comparison. Granted in the controlled conditions of a dyno room FI vs. carb shouldn't be all that different. EFI is well known for driveability and adjusting for conditions automatically, but for WOT in a room the gap should narrow between the two.
There's really no denying that the XV and Indy have shorter runners than stock, which would tend to hamper low end grunt in favor of top end performance, but if you don't build to take advantage of it you might be leaving something on the table. I've seen an Indy dyno'd on a stock internals engine with a TBI system put down respectable numbers, but no XV on the same TBI system to compare.
Regardless, many here have had good luck with carb swaps and are making some serious power. HemiJoe had the Edelbrock setup for a while and ran some good numbers at the strip with it. Believe he's now doing a sheet metal custom piece (similar to an old cross-ram I think, but maybe not). Mopar has the Drag Pak setup now as well and there's the modified version that's a little less high-rise for at least a chance at fitting under a hood while still offering longer runners. My car ran okay with a carb, but I never could get it dialed in where I liked it. With more time and tuning parts I bet I could have gotten there, but a deal on a computer fell into my lap, so I went that direction.
There's really no denying that the XV and Indy have shorter runners than stock, which would tend to hamper low end grunt in favor of top end performance, but if you don't build to take advantage of it you might be leaving something on the table. I've seen an Indy dyno'd on a stock internals engine with a TBI system put down respectable numbers, but no XV on the same TBI system to compare.
Regardless, many here have had good luck with carb swaps and are making some serious power. HemiJoe had the Edelbrock setup for a while and ran some good numbers at the strip with it. Believe he's now doing a sheet metal custom piece (similar to an old cross-ram I think, but maybe not). Mopar has the Drag Pak setup now as well and there's the modified version that's a little less high-rise for at least a chance at fitting under a hood while still offering longer runners. My car ran okay with a carb, but I never could get it dialed in where I liked it. With more time and tuning parts I bet I could have gotten there, but a deal on a computer fell into my lap, so I went that direction.
Joe Dokes
Well-Known Member
Regarding manifolds,
Generally speaking the dyno tests I've seen for the XV, Modman, Mopar Performance, and 08 and before 5.7 and 6.1 manifolds tend to show that the short runner XV, Modman, and Mopar performance tend to give up A LOT of midrange torque but make more HP at the top end when compared to the stock 5.7 manifold. The 6.1 on a 5.7 tend to "split the difference." Though the one test I can remember clearly did not port match the 6.1 manifold to the 5.7 which may have cost it some HP.
Which manifold has more area "under the curve." is somewhat unclear.
Here are a couple of Mopar Muscle dyno tests.
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/mopp_050057_dyno_torquing_hemi_intakes/
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/...pp_1209_late_model_hemi_intake_mod_man_mania/
Regards,
Joe Dokes
Generally speaking the dyno tests I've seen for the XV, Modman, Mopar Performance, and 08 and before 5.7 and 6.1 manifolds tend to show that the short runner XV, Modman, and Mopar performance tend to give up A LOT of midrange torque but make more HP at the top end when compared to the stock 5.7 manifold. The 6.1 on a 5.7 tend to "split the difference." Though the one test I can remember clearly did not port match the 6.1 manifold to the 5.7 which may have cost it some HP.
Which manifold has more area "under the curve." is somewhat unclear.
Here are a couple of Mopar Muscle dyno tests.
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/mopp_050057_dyno_torquing_hemi_intakes/
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/...pp_1209_late_model_hemi_intake_mod_man_mania/
Regards,
Joe Dokes
4speeds4me
Well-Known Member
So, I'm in the midst of doing a 5.7/A833 for a 68 Charger, and I'm having trouble finding the stated flywheel (464108 ). Is that a Mopar number, or McLeod? I didn't have much luck in either department...
Map63Vette
Well-Known Member
Pretty sure mine was a Mopar number when I was looking in the past. I think the MoParts website had a listing at one point for them, so you might be able to get a part number off of there to cross-reference. I just did a Google search and ended up finding mine on Ebay for less than it was listed elsewhere. I believe most people tend to think the Mopar piece is just a McLeod with a different sticker, so maybe you could give McLeod a call and ask if all else fails.
4speeds4me
Well-Known Member
Cool. Thanks!
I see you Megasquirted yours. Running all the factory stuff? Or GM/Delphi like the Hemitronix?
I see you Megasquirted yours. Running all the factory stuff? Or GM/Delphi like the Hemitronix?
Joe Dokes
Well-Known Member
Megasquirt is a stand alone ECU. It uses the factory Hemi sensors with the exception that you must use a cable operated throttle body. Most (not all) cable operated throttle bodies utilize a GM Idle Air Control Stepper valve.
You can but you don't have to also use GM Air Temperature sensors, and Water Temp sensors if you wish but you can calibrate the Megasquirt to work with the Hemi sensors.
There is NO REASON to swap out the either the Crankshaft position sensor, or Camshaft position sensor as MS has settings for both of those.
Regards,
Joe Dokes
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