General question regarding drum brakes, rotors, and hubs 71 valiant

[MCPObr44]

Hello

For the first time in my life I find myself working on drum brakes instead of going to a shop. Specifically I am dealing with front 9'' drums on my '71 Plymouth Valiant. So here is the story so far.

I was told that I needed to use a shop press to remove the wheel studs and separate the rotor from the hub. That seemed right because the hub was firmly stuck on the rotor, and the rotor was so worn and grooved that it could be mistaken for the grand canyon. Heck I think it might be the original rotor from 1971. So I went out and bought a shop press, and a new rotor/wheel studs from summit racing. I used a deep well socket under the hub to ensure it didn't get bent as I pressed the studs out and it all went smoothly.

So I went to press in the new studs and they seemed to fit nicely. Not too tight and not too loose either. Using a caliper, I verified that the new studs and old studs were identical. Once the job was all done I lifted the rotor/hub assembly out of my shop press and PLOP the hub fell out of the rotor and to the ground.

At that point I am thinking I goofed and got the wrong studs or the wrong rotor. I re checked the new and old studs and verified they are identical. I tried slipping a new stud into the holes on the old rotor and it slipped right in with finger pressure. Then I tried the old studs in the old rotor and THEY slipped right in with finger pressure. Then I tried the old studs with the new rotor and sure enough they slip right into the holes with finger pressure.

That's the story so far. So my question is do the wheel studs need to be tight in the hub AND rotor? It seems to me that the rotor would be held in place by the actual wheel when the lug nuts are tightened. Is it safe to do that? Am I insane and really had a loose assembly before and the hub was simply rusted together on the old rotor?

 

[diymirage]

does hub mean brake drum ?

in that case, yeah, you got a drum that has been on this car for what, 20-30 years?
makes sense it was tight
but, it should not be, so once you put it back together it is loose like it should be

i wouldnt worry about

 

[MCPObr44]

does hub mean brake drum ?

in that case, yeah, you got a drum that has been on this car for what, 20-30 years?
makes sense it was tight
but, it should not be, so once you put it back together it is loose like it should be

i wouldnt worry about

Here is a pic to show what I am referring to.

I understood that those two objects were supposed to be firmly pressed together with the wheel studs, but if it's ok if the hub can come off the drum then I am relieved. This car needs to be running sooner rather than later because the new semester is coming.

 

[diymirage]

Here is a pic to show what I am referring to.View attachment 1715190347
I understood that those two objects were supposed to be firmly pressed together with the wheel studs, but if it's ok if the hub can come off the drum then I am relieved. This car needs to be running sooner rather than later because the new semester is coming.

no sir, they do NOT need to be pressed together
the shiney bolt looking things (and im sorry if i sound condescending, i dont know how much you know, so im trying to make it as simple as possible) are called wheel studs and they need to be pressed into the hub, which they are are
now, the drum (the really big part laying face down on the table or washer or whatever it is) doesnt need to be pressed onto anything
in fact, when you put the wheel back on there, the brake drum will be sandwiched in between the wheel and the hub and held tightly in place by the five lugnuts
it is not going anywhere

now, here is where the rub is, see the little edges going up the shaft of the wheel studs?
(that is called knurling, by the way)
those grooves are what hold the studs tightly in the hub, and keeps them from spinning as you try to tighten the lugnuts
now, see how far that knurling is sticking out passed the face of the hub?
when you install that drum, and the wheel, the tightening of the lugnuts will force the drum down onto that knurling and will most likely cause it to get "pressed" unto it.



so, having said all that, there is nothing to worry about here BUT if it was my car, i would drill the holes in drum out a little to make sure the knurling clears the drum, or you will have a bear of a time pulling those drums back off next time you inspect your brake shoes

(look at the very center hole of the drum, see how that has a slight bevel to it?
that bevel will sit nicely on the collar of the hub, and will center on it, and because of that, the holes for the wheel studs can be a little bigger)

 

[MCPObr44]

no sir, they do NOT need to be pressed together
the shiney bolt looking things (and im sorry if i sound condescending, i dont know how much you know, so im trying to make it as simple as possible) are called wheel studs and they need to be pressed into the hub, which they are are
now, the drum (the really big part laying face down on the table or washer or whatever it is) doesnt need to be pressed onto anything
in fact, when you put the wheel back on there, the brake drum will be sandwiched in between the wheel and the hub and held tightly in place by the five lugnuts
it is not going anywhere

now, here is where the rub is, see the little edges going up the shaft of the wheel studs?
(that is called knurling, by the way)
those grooves are what hold the studs tightly in the hub, and keeps them from spinning as you try to tighten the lugnuts
now, see how far that knurling is sticking out passed the face of the hub?
when you install that drum, and the wheel, the tightening of the lugnuts will force the drum down onto that knurling and will most likely cause it to get "pressed" unto it.



so, having said all that, there is nothing to worry about here BUT if it was my car, i would drill the holes in drum out a little to make sure the knurling clears the drum, or you will have a bear of a time pulling those drums back off next time you inspect your brake shoes

(look at the very center hole of the drum, see how that has a slight bevel to it?
that bevel will sit nicely on the collar of the hub, and will center on it, and because of that, the holes for the wheel studs can be a little bigger)

Wonderful!

Thank you very much, that seriously takes a lot of stress off of me! I will have that guy back together in no time and have the car rolling down the road. I tried to do my research before I started but this all threw me through a loop. Nobody was around to teach me this stuff growing up so it's all on me to discover and learn.

Thanks again!

 

[diymirage]

you're welcome
this stuff can be a little overwhelming but we got a great group of people here
im sure just about every one of them will be happy to help you along, especially if you are willing to learn

 

[MCPObr44]

Update.

Turns out I was right to do my brakes as soon as I did. I thought they were braking funny and it was pulling to the left, so that's why I started this project. Once I pulled the driver side front brakes apart I found out just how close I came to fiery death.

I declare this brake shoe... unsafe at ANY speed.

 

[mobileparts]

Hope you didn't order the new friction material garbage that they are forced to sell from the current parts stores ---- you and your car will regret it....
You M U S T use ++ N.O.S. ++ ASBESTOS ++ such that you don't rip up the drums -- and have NICE< SMOOTH braking.....
Will PM you my phone number -- call me if you are SMART!!!!!!!!!!!!!