Getting the geometry correct on roller rocker position?

Discussion in 'Mopar Performance Issues' started by LovetheA's, Mar 31, 2018.

  1. LovetheA's

    LovetheA's FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Everyone thanks for the feedback. Here is my situation right now. I worked with Mike at B3 racing super knowledgeable guy and very patient. Big kudos to him. He just sent me my geometry correction kit for the swap of my Harland sharp 1.6 roller rockers. I’m moving them from my old 915 cast iron heads on my 383 to my Eddie performer rpms.
    Well I found out that you can’t just swap out heads and bolt back on the roller rockers. So I have some issues beforehand I go any further with assembly. I have taken some close up pics to refer to.

    I realize that when putting the roller rockers back on, the oiling hole in the shaft should face down towards the valve side.
    Well with the shift in the new lifted offset position will the oiling still be effective if I point the holes down and toward the valve side?
    I wasn’t sure which way the offset kit should move the rockers up towards the valves or up towards the pushrods?
    I have taken a series of pics showing the positioning of the spacers and what the contact point looks like at the valve tip and roller. Which one looks correct?
    Do I need offset rocker shafts?
    How do I know how long the pushrods need to be? Will that be determined when I go to set preload and lash?
    I have been told that the adjustment screw should show roughly 2 threads when set on pushrod correctly?
    I also have taken some pics of the spacers Mike made me. Only two of them have two little notches cut in them do they need to be placed a certain way?
    I know a lot of questions but really trying to learn by doing everything myself.
    Carl

    Here are the pics the first two are with the spacers one way and the position of the roller valvetip contact and the second two show them reversed. I have attached another pic with the shaft spacers and the two that are different

    BBE082E8-CAFB-42C7-BA3C-F38DFB2B6C71.jpeg

    1741DD6D-CA47-432A-B553-21CBCB28ADC2.jpeg

    B07FE2EB-0BB5-478B-B3EE-F62BF94B1904.jpeg

    5A835E87-D18C-491C-B287-B9102D834D3F.jpeg
     
  2. LovetheA's

    LovetheA's FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Here are the spacers.

    4E41AC03-2500-4DDD-BA43-066285190346.jpeg
     
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    • Brewzer67

      Brewzer67 Well-Known Member

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      Give Mike a call back and he can walk you through it. The two shims with the slots go on the rocker stands that feed the oil (one on each head). The shims look like you have them on backwards. The roller tip should not be that far out on the valve.
       
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      • j par

        j par Well-hung Member

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        It looks like it needs to be shimmed to me? Maybe I'm misunderstanding all this? Those look like spacers.
         
      • j par

        j par Well-hung Member

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        You need to put shims under the shaft. That will raise the shaft up obviously you'll like you're thinking you'll need to unscrew the Adjusters, but it'll take up the slack very quickly it won't put it out more than a couple more threads if things get bad and that's not bad. Yes ideally you want about two threads.
        Edit: yes I have two threads on mine, but if I had four I wouldn't be freaking out at all. But if I had the adjusters bottomed out with a half inch, I'd be holding my breath...
         
      • j par

        j par Well-hung Member

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        It's one of those things were a little here goes a lot there. You're in the good Zone because putting shims in will make it come in towards the shaft. Of course that's how that rocker rocks or the motion that goes in. It doesn't roll off the outside.
         
      • 416stroker

        416stroker Well-Known Member

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        Have you tried mounting the rocker shafts without any shims under them to see where the roller tip lays on the valve? The shims in the picture look pretty thick? The higher the shaft is shimmed, the farther out on the valve it will place the roller tip. Been down this road with my Edelbrock heads. I currently have only a .040 shim under the shafts on my heads to get the tips out where they belong and have a good pattern more in the center of the valve. No shims put mine a bit more on the back of the valve tip than I liked.
         
      • IQ52

        IQ52 Well-Known Member

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        Don't listen to anyone here except for those who tell you to contact Mike! Anyone else who has never used one of these kits needs to be quiet and not speculate. Sometimes mistakes are made and if there are any, only Mike can set you on the right path with his kit. I make a similar kit for myself only and I'm telling you, you need to contact Mike, Mike only.
         
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        • IQ52

          IQ52 Well-Known Member

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          How many threads should be showing on a Harland Sharp rocker arm? Let Harland Sharp tell you! Read the very first tech tip.

          Untitled 1

          "should not exceed".......hmmm I wonder what that means?
           
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          • j par

            j par Well-hung Member

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            Well I'm extremely glad I didn't listen to Hughes and Hughes only! I use the stud mounts and the bolts were bottoming out on the stud before they had the shaft pinned against the pedestals. I called Hughes and explained everything to them and told them it just didn't seem right? They were positive if I had tighten them down as they recommended that would be fine. I put washers into the nuts on top of the shaft and brought it all the way down to the pedestal. I took another 8 turns or so to get it all the way down and tight! If I would have listened to them all hell would have broke loose. My point is is it's hard for any of us out here or even them sometimes unless you're right there and seeing what's going on. I really like the idea of you sending them a video so they can really see what's going on. And I also agree don't listen to anybody out here if you have someone you bought them from and you're working with. I know it doesn't hurt to ask questions out here and get some second opinions or at least get some questions to ask MIKE.
             
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            • IQ52

              IQ52 Well-Known Member

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              Hughes was probably confused if the "....bolts were bottoming out on the studs..." and you "....put washers into the nuts...."

              Though we all know what you meant. Nuts running out of threads on the studs and you put washers under the nuts.

              The OP would help greatly, if there was a picture of the entire rocker and not just the roller tip as it rests on the valve tip. Were the pushrods installed in those pictures and were they holding the rocker shafts off the rocker stands because they weren't tightened down correctly? Did the rocker shafts he is trying to use have the holes in them elongated so the shaft will set in the saddles correctly? Is he using a kit designed for the 915 head on the RPM? Really, he needs to talk to Mike.
               
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              • famous bob

                famous bob mopar misfit

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                man, iq 52, I`m glad u cleared that statement up, I was having trouble w trying to figure out what he was saying !!! LOL
                 
              • j par

                j par Well-hung Member

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                Sorry that happens! Sometimes I don't even know what I'm saying! LOL Of course when I went through all this I had a thread on it somewhere in the archives of course. There ain't a nut Bolt piston ring or bearing anybody hasn't seen in my car on this forum.
                 
              • fishmens67

                fishmens67 Well-Known Member

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                hum, the tip is about to roll off the edge, wrong kit ? it has to be, not even close to being right. not even.
                Contact Mike
                 
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                • LovetheA's

                  LovetheA's FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                  Thank you so much for everyone’s feedback. This is a perfect example of how invaluable this website is to people like myself trying to tackle my own projects. What a resource. I’m going to contact Mike again at B3 racing engines. It is obvious the geometry of the roller on the valve tip doesn’t look optimal. I might as well get it right before bolting everything back together.
                  Carl
                   
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                  • yellow rose

                    yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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                    You are down to the easy part. You have to offset the holes in the shaft, and the shims need to raise the shaft, and move the shaft back towards the intake manifold. If you don't oval the holes in the shaft, you will get everything in a bind. The shafts will have the same orientation with the shims.

                    To set pushrod length...it depends on where the oil feed hole to the pushrod is located. All of the HS rockers I have seen use the Chrysler oil hole location. That means the adjuster needs to be 9/32 out of the rocker.

                    That means when your pushrod length is correct, you should be able to visually verify that the oil hole in the rocker is lined up with the undercut part of the adjuster. That's the only way oil gets to the pushrod. Some rely on the list floating around the valve cover but that's not cool.
                     
                  • IQ52

                    IQ52 Well-Known Member

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                    And so........the answer is?
                     
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                    • Ironmike

                      Ironmike Well-Known Member

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                      1. Mike sends specific instructions with all his kits. They're in simple, easy to understand English. They explain where, how, and which way everything goes.

                      2. Ain't no way THAT kit was made for THAT set up. My guess is the OP probably made a mistake measuring for HIS kit. When you order a correction kit, you have to have 4 or 5 very specific measurements of YOUR stuff the way it sits now.

                      3. The geometry correction kits are not interchangeable......each one is made SPECIFICALLY to the measurements you provide to Mike. If you measure wrong, or misunderstand, your kit will not be right.

                      I had a kit made for one pair of Edelbrocks that wasn't even close in a new, different pair.

                      4. If you measure properly your geometry will be perfect when your kit is installed. Also, if you have a 40 or 50 thou "swipe" pattern and it's close to center.........your geometry is friggin horrible.

                      Go to B3 Racing and read the geometry stuff.

                      Edit: for all of you guys who already know all this.......sorry. I'm tired......
                       
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                      • moper

                        moper FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                        All I was going to say is I think the B3 kit is specific to the heads you measured the first time. So call Mike would be my response, but don't be surprised if you need a new shim package from him.