I don't disagree with you. But not everyone has that ot throw around on a simple street build.
Got my Cam Back from Oregon
- Thread starter Dusty 997
- Start date
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I've seen a big block Chevy with almost ten degrees retarded cam timing with the sprockets "dot to dot". It happens all the time. SOMETIMES you get lucky and it's right. Not often.
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
Time to go back to engine building school.
He might save some money and learn something about tuning in the process. If and it's a mighty big if, all that is wrong with it is wrong timing or wrong jet or something else that may be discovered on the dyno it would still be cheaper than re-camming a motor that doesn't need re-cammed. Happens at my dyno more than you would think.
If he learns how to tune, he wouldn't need all that.......but I completely agree with you.
The old statement, "Trust, but verify" is the biggest deal with camshaft timing.
Dot to dot is a 100% crapshoot hoping it's right. Most of the time it is not.
Dot to dot is a 100% crapshoot hoping it's right. Most of the time it is not.
Rarely, if ever does a cam align to the recommended lobe installed centerline: Especially after it has been reground to a tighter lsa!
Welp i found the problem.
My buddy who helped with the transmission install messed with my throttle cable bracket. When he hooked the kickdown cable back up
Its always the stupid **** that gets you.... The way he adjusted it i was only getting 60% full throttle with the pedal floored to the ground. I did play with the timing some, it liked a little bit more but once the pedal was actually opening the carb....yeah it drives like it has a cam now. Its still not where i wanted it BUT that is a sepparate issue. Im calling it case closed
lesson learned if someone else touches your car, double check EVERYTHING
My buddy who helped with the transmission install messed with my throttle cable bracket. When he hooked the kickdown cable back up
Its always the stupid **** that gets you.... The way he adjusted it i was only getting 60% full throttle with the pedal floored to the ground. I did play with the timing some, it liked a little bit more but once the pedal was actually opening the carb....yeah it drives like it has a cam now. Its still not where i wanted it BUT that is a sepparate issue. Im calling it case closed
lesson learned if someone else touches your car, double check EVERYTHING
That goes for cam timing too.
the problem is, i would have been 1000X more likely to screw it up messing with a degree wheel when i have no clue what im even supposed to be looking at/for.
I know it can be frustrating for guys who have been doing this for years and really know their **** to see a dumb noob like me struggle with stuff that seems simple, but im basically learning everything by myself as i go. I've never installed a cam before or even assembled my own motor. Ive done all the generic stuff like suspension work, brakes, wring, bodywork/paint ext but ive never tried to build a motor before and I don't have anyone around here who knows this stuff so a lot of it is what i see on youtube or the help i get in threads like this.
Appreciate all the tips though, i didn't know you even had to degree a cam unless your goal was to advance or retard it a specific amount trying to squeeze every last pony out. Now i do.
mayhem
Well-Known Member
Everybody here started as a 'noob', everybody. The difference is, some listened and learned what was required. To degree a cam is a relatively simple process. Research, read, watch some YouTube, etc., to gain a basic understanding of what you're doing. Then go out to the garage and do it. Double and triple check it. Pull it all apart and redo it. It isn't rocket science. Even better, make friends with someone nearby that has some experience doing this and invite them over for pizza and your favorite beverage when you're done. Surely there is a local Mopar club with folks who would be willing to help a struggling 'noob'?
DumpsterFire
Well-Known Member
I'm an idiot in a street car. I wanna be loud and slow. My headers are just for show. I know I'm building a stupid car
I suppose learning it even HAD to be done is the first step.Probably over winter I will mess with it and try to figure out how it's done.
I'm going to drive it the way it is now for the rest of the autumn season. Now that i have full throttle its at an acceptable level. Choosing the wrong cam was one thing but man i just could not fathom how it could possibly have no improvement over the stock one. Had me questioning everything and second guessing everything i did.
Hey if you know what your about!
I want to be loud and fast...but i've got a lot to figure out to pull it off it seems.
now you know that degreeing a cam is an important part of engine building, so you've got that going for you. so now you can buy the degreeing kit from summit and learn to use it knowing how important that aspect actually is!
everybody started off as a noob. well, except for me. i was born dick first, wrench in hand. but, here's where the distinction is made: when you have the desire and capacity to learn, that makes you a better mechanic.
also, always check for full throttle. ALWAYS.
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
it’s great that you’re willing to learn and have a good attitude about it. The phrase, i don’t know what I don’t know applies to all of us at one point. Degreeing a camshaft is just parking the centerline of the intake lobe in the right spot relative to where the piston is. The cam manufacturer will tell you where they want it. I think only a handful of cams I’ve put in (I’ve done lots) have been spot on when installed dot to dot. It’s ALWAYS good to check em.
mayhem
Well-Known Member
Yup, leave the 'dot-to-dot' method for the Chevy miscreants.
If you just did that then you really can't expect it to run optimally since you have no idea where the timing really is.
That's the difference between those that run exceptionally well and those that run so, so.
If you want the reward, you have to do the steps. Correct timing on the chain can make for night and day performance.
I would have probably installed something with a 230/236 @ .050" in a street 360. At that point you know it has a cam in it.
Tom
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Lots of good advise given for degreeing your cam. I had a 440 built by someone I got my car from and it was a real dog off the line. Am positive it was the lack of proper degreeing. I ended up going with a different engine but the same cam. This time I had a machine shop degree the cam with the same (new) timing set. The machinist said he had to measure it twice because it was so far off. It was 6* retarded! Yep, it does matter!
thanks guys, good info and you weren't too hard on me 
I still want to go bigger, but now ill know how to make sure i get optimum results from whatever i do install.
looking to bump my rear end gears up too, im currently running 3.73s and im thinking about making the switch to 3.90 or 4.10 as well as doing some more motor stuff.
For now until winter, just gonna sit back and enjoy the ride.
I still want to go bigger, but now ill know how to make sure i get optimum results from whatever i do install.
looking to bump my rear end gears up too, im currently running 3.73s and im thinking about making the switch to 3.90 or 4.10 as well as doing some more motor stuff.
For now until winter, just gonna sit back and enjoy the ride.
Here's a little updated video after messing with the timing and doing test drives late last night.
It sounds and runs/drives a good bit better now. Can definitely tell its not bone stock now so I'm happy.
Overall positive outcome, especially with the priceless info I've learned doing it that I can apply next time.
It sounds and runs/drives a good bit better now. Can definitely tell its not bone stock now so I'm happy.
Overall positive outcome, especially with the priceless info I've learned doing it that I can apply next time.
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
I’m glad you’re at least “more” happy with it than you originally started to be. I’ll say this though, picking a camshaft for sound almost always gives up performance. All the LS guys now a days want chop. Any time I put an engine together for someone I ask them, “do you want it to sound fast? Or do you want it to BE fast?” And engine can sound like a funny car and be a complete turd on the street with the wrong combination of camshaft, compression, gears, and converter.
Sounds like tarzan, runs like jane... Have one of those in a car here at the house. Didn't build it, but those desirable 68-70 exh manifolds KILLED the performance. Put on headers, woke it up A LOT. Still a dog for what it is IMO.
Another of those engines put together with a rather large cam and dot to dot is my guess.
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