Griffin radiator and twin fans still running at 190-200?

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northeastmopar

northeastmopar

FABO Gold Member
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Hi Guys,
I installed what griffin calls a direct fit aluminum radiator with the custom built aluminum shroud and 2 spal 10" fans. Came with 2 relays. So, I wired the two fans placing the ground wires for each fan in a different location. I then wired the fan supply to the red feeds from each relay. I wired the other heavy wire to the side accessory post on the optima battery and installed a 15amp fuse in each line. I then took the sending unit they included and had to bush it down with an aluminum bushing and installed it into a port in my edelbrock aluminum manifold. Then I insyalled the two sending unit wires to the post on the sending unit. I then checked for and found a 12volt source wire which is always live while the car is running. Now I also have an autometer temperature guage with its own sending unit in a different location on the manifold. It was always reading high when sitting in traffic. If I drove for a while it would drop to 180. It was sitting in traffic that seemed not so good. I thought the griffin radiator and twin fans would idle at the 180. So far, not so much. Fans appear to be kicking on at the guage reading about 200-210? I have only had the car idle so far, but the fans seem to drop the temp down to about 190 while idling. Hopefully it will drop more when driving. And it is not 90 degrees yet. My car is an a/c car so does have the newer thin condenser up front. Motor is a 416 stroker motor. I should also mention it appears to be running rather eye burning rich while idling? I did have it dyno tuned and the man rejetted the carb. Has a Holley 770 cfm double pumper. Holley told me to install a vacuum guage at the carb base and adjust the four corner metering to get the highest vacuum reading and see if it is just the idle circuit running to rich. They also told me I may want to open the automatic choke adjustment a bit to let more air in on startup. I don't know if this stuff would make the car run warm? Or maybe the autometer guage is off? I also am running the Evans coolant in the engine. Son't know if that plays games with the water temp sending units? Also, I did place some ARP liquid Teflon around the treads of the fan sending unit? Wondering if that is turning fans on too high? It is suppose to be turn on at 185 and of at 165? Turning on more like 200. Any thoughts on this would be helpful. I should also state that all this stuff is brand new.
 
Happy at 190-195, All stock! 220 and up starts getting my attention! Lots of cash to make you uneasy!
 
Your engine is not over heating. It's not even close.
 
My wife bought me one of those heat guns a couple years ago and I can't tell you how much confidence it gives me when I check it against my gauges. I've also caught gauges that weren't calibrated correctly. I've been running about 207 to 203 and it's been cool out and it's making me nervous already.
 
j par said:
My wife bought me one of those heat guns a couple years ago and I can't tell you how much confidence it gives me when I check it against my gauges. I've also caught gauges that weren't calibrated correctly. I've been running about 207 to 203 and it's been cool out and it's making me nervous already.
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I run 170 on a hundred degree day. I say we run three runs back to back at 3pm.

Sorry wrong thread.
 
j par said:
My wife bought me one of those heat guns a couple years ago and I can't tell you how much confidence it gives me when I check it against my gauges. I've also caught gauges that weren't calibrated correctly. I've been running about 207 to 203 and it's been cool out and it's making me nervous already.
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Funny thing was I used one on mine (Radiator) thinking it was hotter than that. It showed 190+ at the top and 35-40 lower at the bottom. My factory gauge was lying. New gauge and confidence. 200 and down is just fine.
 
I’ve got a brand new auto meter gauge that’s like 10* high at 190*F. Between the stock gauge, the extra sender I run to feed my fan controller, and the auto meter gauge I run off that same sender sender, I get at least 2 different temperatures all the time.

At any rate, Rob is right, running at 200*f when you’re sitting isn’t hot, that’s pretty normal.

And why are you running the fans down to 165 anyway? What temp thermostat are you running? No point running the fans at a temp below the thermostat.

My 340 isn’t even really happy until it’s 190*F. With a 180 t-stat I start my fans at the low speed at 200 and run them down to 185. The high speed kicks in at 210.
 
72bluNblu said:
I’ve got a brand new auto meter gauge that’s like 10* high at 190*F. Between the stock gauge, the extra sender I run to feed my fan controller, and the auto meter gauge I run off that same sender sender, I get at least 2 different temperatures all the time.

At any rate, Rob is right, running at 200*f when you’re sitting isn’t hot, that’s pretty normal.

And why are you running the fans down to 165 anyway? What temp thermostat are you running? No point running the fans at a temp below the thermostat.

My 340 isn’t even really happy until it’s 190*F. With a 180 t-stat I start my fans at the low speed at 200 and run them down to 185. The high speed kicks in at 210.
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agree w/ this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I reinstalled my mech. fan and reworked alum. shroud. my 440/505 is almost running on the thermostat, until idling at stop lights. Gets to 200 and kicks the front 15'' elec. fan on. Was in the 90`s here today.
 
northeastmopar said:
H It was always reading high when sitting in traffic. If I drove for a while it would drop to 180. It was sitting in traffic that seemed not so good. I thought the griffin radiator and twin fans would idle at the 180. So far, not so much. Fans appear to be kicking on at the guage reading about 200-210? I have only had the car idle so far, but the fans seem to drop the temp down to about 190 while idling.
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It is very difficult to pull a lot of air with 10" fans no matter what brand fan you have. If you are only having the problem in traffic, one thing you could do is upgrade to dual 12" fans. If you can't fit dual 12", then go to a single 16-18" A single 16" fan will pulls way more air than 2 10" fans.
 
Ccas said:
It is very difficult to pull a lot of air with 10" fans no matter what brand fan you have. If you are only having the problem in traffic, one thing you could do is upgrade to dual 12" fans. If you can't fit dual 12", then go to a single 16-18" A single 16" fan will pulls way more air than 2 10" fans.
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His car isn’t overheating. He probably doesn’t even need new fans. Maybe a more accurate temperature gauge and a better controller. But the car isn’t even really running hot, so recommending new fans isn’t necessary at this point.

Fan diameter is only a small part of fan performance anyway. Cfm rating is what’s important, not diameter. A good shroud will pull air across the entire core regardless of the diameter of the fan. Spal makes 10” fans that pull anywhere from 749 to 1103 cfm. Perma-cool makes a 10” fan that’s rated at 2,750 cfm. If you just look at 10” fans from Summit, they range anywhere from 600 cfm to 2750. Two 600 cfm 10” fans wouldn’t cut it. Two 2750 cfm fans would be more than enough. There’s a lot more to fans than diameter.

Fans, Electric - Single Fan Quantity - 10.000 in. Fan Diameter (in)
 
j par said:
Was Post Number 10 too difficult of a question?
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No, sorry I missed it. Sorry, I am not perfect.

IMO, on a really hot street/race engine, 220-235 isn't too hot, IF it will cool back off at least 20 or so degrees on the road after idling in say bumper to bumper traffic in the middle of the summer. Really wild engines LIKE to run hot. It's knowing where the line is and being able to back away from it. Sometimes, no matter what, once an engine reaches a certain point, you simply cannot cool it back down without hitting the key.

And before you say "oh gosh, 235 is real hot!" think about this. Adding about 15 pounds to the cooling system raises the boiling point to about 250*F. That's just for plain water. Add coolant in the mix and it's even higher. The problem is, you simply don't have the room for a radiator big enough to sustain 250* plus temperatures. Also, the rings don't like that much heat. They tend to lose their tension.

Al that said, I think 220 is a bout the perfect operating temperature for a stock to moderate street engine. Again, idling in traffic on a HOT day and cooling back off to say 190. I don't really like anything I have to run 180 or less. You'll never get all the moisture and contaminants out of the oil.

All this of course is just one peon's opinion.
 
Ccas said:
It is very difficult to pull a lot of air with 10" fans no matter what brand fan you have. If you are only having the problem in traffic, one thing you could do is upgrade to dual 12" fans. If you can't fit dual 12", then go to a single 16-18" A single 16" fan will pulls way more air than 2 10" fans.
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No matter HOW MUCH you preach it, you simply cannot get people to understand that a 79 dollar electric fain AIN'T gonna get the job done. You need about 4000 CFM as a minimum, IMO if you go electric. I like the specs of the Black Magic fans by Flex O Lite. They ain't cheap but they MOVE some air.
 
RustyRatRod said:
No, sorry I missed it. Sorry, I am not perfect.

IMO, on a really hot street/race engine, 220-235 isn't too hot, IF it will cool back off at least 20 or so degrees on the road after idling in say bumper to bumper traffic in the middle of the summer. Really wild engines LIKE to run hot. It's knowing where the line is and being able to back away from it. Sometimes, no matter what, once an engine reaches a certain point, you simply cannot cool it back down without hitting the key.

And before you say "oh gosh, 235 is real hot!" think about this. Adding about 15 pounds to the cooling system raises the boiling point to about 250*F. That's just for plain water. Add coolant in the mix and it's even higher. The problem is, you simply don't have the room for a radiator big enough to sustain 250* plus temperatures. Also, the rings don't like that much heat. They tend to lose their tension.

Al that said, I think 220 is a bout the perfect operating temperature for a stock to moderate street engine. Again, idling in traffic on a HOT day and cooling back off to say 190. I don't really like anything I have to run 180 or less. You'll never get all the moisture and contaminants out of the oil.

All this of course is just one peon's opinion.
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Can not disagree, seen the 235+ plenty in the old days. It never really hurt it. If it cools back down afterwards with some driving all is good. Today I want 200 and smile. No electric fan, no nothing special, factory stuff other than high flow pump and stat and that allows me to drive and enjoy! The OP’s car is not overheating and 72B&B and more said it correct. Think a look at total timing is important as well. When first back on the road I felt it ran to hot and it did a bit, after sorting out a new ingnition in pertronix III and a different dizzy than the Chrysler electorinic stuff I used to run it made a big difference. The new stuff was getting to like almost 50* advance. Once sorted my temps are well under control even on the hottest GA days.
 
72bluNblu said:
His car isn’t overheating. He probably doesn’t even need new fans. Maybe a more accurate temperature gauge and a better controller. But the car isn’t even really running hot, so recommending new fans isn’t necessary at this point.

Fan diameter is only a small part of fan performance anyway. Cfm rating is what’s important, not diameter. A good shroud will pull air across the entire core regardless of the diameter of the fan. Spal makes 10” fans that pull anywhere from 749 to 1103 cfm. Perma-cool makes a 10” fan that’s rated at 2,750 cfm. If you just look at 10” fans from Summit, they range anywhere from 600 cfm to 2750. Two 600 cfm 10” fans wouldn’t cut it. Two 2750 cfm fans would be more than enough. There’s a lot more to fans than diameter.

Fans, Electric - Single Fan Quantity - 10.000 in. Fan Diameter (in)
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i was contributing because the topic starter was 'concerned' with the temps he was running. Several of you gave good advice about making him feel comfortable with the safety of 210-220 temps. While it may be unnecessary to run at 190 all the time, there are advantages. Many owners are not comfortable when that heat starts pushing into the interior. It's uncomfortable and there is also a mental aspect of the car being close to overheating. I happen to be one of those people. So I gave him a couple of ideas based on his situation.

As far as my recommendation, while you are absolutely correct that fan CFM can range greatly, if you compare apples to apples, a 16" Spal fan is going to outperform 2 10" Spal fans of the same line. That was my point. Our topic starter's temps are rising 15 degrees when at idle. The rise in temp at idle is directly related to air flow. Hence my comments on fans.

We're all here on these forums to contribute information that can help increase our collective knowledge about any particular topic with the assumption that future viewers may benefit as well. I'm fairly new on the forums but I'm not new to dealing with cooling issues. I think we have some pretty good knowledge that can help members here and there. I hope you long time contributors are open to that.
 
Ccas said:
i was contributing because the topic starter was 'concerned' with the temps he was running. Several of you gave good advice about making him feel comfortable with the safety of 210-220 temps. While it may be unnecessary to run at 190 all the time, there are advantages. Many owners are not comfortable when that heat starts pushing into the interior. It's uncomfortable and there is also a mental aspect of the car being close to overheating. I happen to be one of those people. So I gave him a couple of ideas based on his situation.

As far as my recommendation, while you are absolutely correct that fan CFM can range greatly, if you compare apples to apples, a 16" Spal fan is going to outperform 2 10" Spal fans of the same line. That was my point. Our topic starter's temps are rising 15 degrees when at idle. The rise in temp at idle is directly related to air flow. Hence my comments on fans.

We're all here on these forums to contribute information that can help increase our collective knowledge about any particular topic with the assumption that future viewers may benefit as well. I'm fairly new on the forums but I'm not new to dealing with cooling issues. I think we have some pretty good knowledge that can help members here and there. I hope you long time contributors are open to that.
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I'm a firm believer that car knowledge is car knowledge and if it could be passed along and be helpful it's all good. I thought I seen once or twice, I don't think it was you maybe another vendor where it starts to become a commercial for their products when they post and that can get a little sticky. My-2 and again thanks for your experience..
 
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