Hardtop windshield frame for a vert?

[Garethw]

I’ve got a 65 Valiant convertible that needs a cowl and A pillars. Could a cowl and windshield frame be cut out of a hardtop and used in an original convertible car? I’m mostly wondering if there is any extra support metal in the A pillars of the convertible frame that aren’t in the hardtop. I know the glass is the same and the hardware to latch the soft top seems to just screw into the windshield frame.

 

[RedFish]

On my 67, the window frame upright/post is stamped a different shape. The exterior trim recreates the smooth/rounded body shape. A good size void between the window frame and trim was foam filled. I don't know if the different shape of the post is all they did to add strength to it.
This post needed to be quite rigid on any of them. They were reinforced, overlapping in the join area. I don't know the vert post has the same join in the same location. Anyway... I'll believe they are not interchangeable until someone proves otherwise. Good luck

 

[66Dvert]

I’ve got a 65 Valiant convertible that needs a cowl and A pillars. Could a cowl and windshield frame be cut out of a hardtop and used in an original convertible car? I’m mostly wondering if there is any extra support metal in the A pillars of the convertible frame that aren’t in the hardtop. I know the glass is the same and the hardware to latch the soft top seems to just screw into the windshield frame.

whoeeee! it's not forthe faint of heart. make sure you have a good supply of spot weld cutters. there are over 300 spot welds and lead removal needed on that darn thing. It comes apart in layers. if you can, save everything on the top section like in pic #6 that way you will be able to reuse your trim and latch points. those areas are a different shape than the hardtop or sedan. of not you'll have a lot of work modifying a top section

Yes there is a couple of pieces that are convertible specific. pic #1 and#2 have the pieces that need to be kept. plus the top section shown in pic #6

1. the cowl top piece comes off first after you remove the lead from the corners by the a pillar

2. A pillar unleaded at the bottom where it meets the cowl(welded to the inner piece ) and work you way up the apillar to remove welds

3. yeah, you though you didn't have to do any more spot welds(WRONG) the inner cowl has some there too. Don't forget to do the Brake pedal and emergency brake mount attachment points.

If you keep the inner metal on the A pillar you can use the hardtop as a direct replacement. IT is NOT a plug and play deal like just grafting the whole thing to the car. the first picture will show the convertible support metal that needs to be in there.

this is what mine looked like and I did have to make some heavier plates to replace the rusted out pieces from 1/8" metal

old cowl new replacement 4 door cowl

not much left of the old cowl, I must have pulled 10lbs of rotten paper and bondo out of the rusted areas.

I still had to replace metal in the new one but compared to the original .... piece of cake!

and then put it back together.. I used a 4 door cowl and pillar support, but the seller of the part cut it below the roof line and I had to add a 1 1/4" filler piece to the outer A pillar.

lower cowl in and -A pillar going in.

inner cowl sealed and welded back in

 

[66Dvert]

oh yeah the inner metal on the hard top is different in the upper section along with the vent window frames being different between hardtops and convertibles
convertibles have a flat spot on the tip vs the pointy end on hardtops. (glass and rubber is the same though) convertible on bottom. just the chromed section and rubber tip is different. I had to make new rubber tips for mine.

 

[Garethw]

Thanks 66Dvert!! I'm up for the surgery. Just wanted to know that it's possible. I didn't realize how many layers there were. I'd have to replace that inner 1/8" support on mine anyway so I'd just make a new one from some flat stock. It looks like that's what you did. My lower cowl is pretty rusted out too. The top of the windshield frame is solid though. Here's pics of what I'm dealing with.

 

[Garethw]

DVert, you mentioned the convertible unique parts in your Pics #1 and #2. I see the green arrow to the 1/8" support in Pic 1, but what's in Pic 2 that's specific?

 

[Mopar Tim]

Thanks 66Dvert!! I'm up for the surgery. Just wanted to know that it's possible. I didn't realize how many layers there were. I'd have to replace that inner 1/8" support on mine anyway so I'd just make a new one from some flat stock. It looks like that's what you did. My lower cowl is pretty rusted out too. The top of the windshield frame is solid though. Here's pics of what I'm dealing with.

View attachment 1715148279

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Nothing that cannot be dealt with, go for it

 

[66Dvert]

DVert, you mentioned the convertible unique parts in your Pics #1 and #2. I see the green arrow to the 1/8" support in Pic 1, but what's in Pic 2 that's specific?

Gah I forgot to ad the top section pictures and did follow through on the post.. sorry. convertible specific metal is ok in picture one and in picture 2 it's for all models (just a flat piece sandwiched in place like garethw's 1st picture right above the door hinge)
these are different on the convertible than the hardtop or sedan.

 

[66Dvert]

Thanks 66Dvert!! I'm up for the surgery. Just wanted to know that it's possible. I didn't realize how many layers there were. I'd have to replace that inner 1/8" support on mine anyway so I'd just make a new one from some flat stock. It looks like that's what you did. My lower cowl is pretty rusted out too. The top of the windshield frame is solid though. Here's pics of what I'm dealing with.

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heck that ain't bad. at least you have metal to remove instead of paper packed bondo, here is a helpful hint if you ever want to close your top and make it fit
BRACE,brace brace it up.

I used a V and could have used an X also on bracing mine since it did shift on me a bit (1/8" twist). I had to recut the A-pillar and re-align it when i tested the fit of the top frame.

look into the door opening and you can see my bracing.

 

[Garethw]

heck that ain't bad. at least you have metal to remove instead of paper packed bondo, here is a helpful hint if you ever want to close your top and make it fit
BRACE,brace brace it up.

I used a V and could have used an X also on bracing mine since it did shift on me a bit (1/8" twist). I had to recut the A-pillar and re-align it when i tested the fit of the top frame.

look into the door opening and you can see my bracing.View attachment 1715148308

Thanks again DVert, your pics gave me good confidence I can get this done. Luckily my existing top of the windshield frame is solid so I can just splice that in.l

 

[Garethw]

Alright, I'm about to dive in! New cowl and windshield frame came the other day. Thanks to Hemi446 for cutting up his donor car!

66DVert, any chance you know the angle of the windshield, say along the drip rail, compared to the rocker panel? My windshield frame was so rusted out it's got an inch of play in either direction at the top. When the glass comes out, I know it's going to just flop over. I want to make sure the new is set correctly.

Maybe I should start a Restoration thread.

 

[66Dvert]

Alright, I'm about to dive in! New cowl and windshield frame came the other day. Thanks to Hemi446 for cutting up his donor car!

66DVert, any chance you know the angle of the windshield, say along the drip rail, compared to the rocker panel? My windshield frame was so rusted out it's got an inch of play in either direction at the top. When the glass comes out, I know it's going to just flop over. I want to make sure the new is set correctly.

Maybe I should start a Restoration thread.

View attachment 1715177130

I raised the top and locked it in place when I started to work on mine, as soon as I locked it it place. (with doors closed to make sure the gap placement was correct on both sides) I used a metal brace tacked to the pillar and to the floor to lock the angle in. then removed doors and did my V angle bracing at the latch mechanism straight across and another one to the A pillar. I can get a measurement fron the Latch to the Apillar tip , showing where I measured from if that helps.

 

[Garethw]

Good idea latching the top, I’ll do that. I already took my doors off but I can put them back on to check the gap along the vent window. That should be sufficient. No need for you to get any measurements I think. Thanks!

 

[66Dvert]

Good idea latching the top, I’ll do that. I already took my doors off but I can put them back on to check the gap along the vent window. That should be sufficient. No need for you to get any measurements I think. Thanks!

Get ready for a ton of spot weld cutting, I wore out my 60.00 Blair Equipment 11090N Rotabroach Cutter and decided to go to Harbor freight and get their 9:00 cutters. grabbed 4 of em and proceeded to do all the rest my 66 dart floor pan, trunk pan rear gutter trunk flange and all of the pieces of the cowl with those 4 cutters (I still have 1 hanging on the wall out of those 4) those were the best little cheapie tools that I have ever bought. there were about 200 just in the cowl-apillar-lower cowl section alone.. whew I got tired of cutting them out and almost decided to use a cutting wheel, glad I didn't though.

 

[Garethw]

Get ready for a ton of spot weld cutting, I wore out my 60.00 Blair Equipment 11090N Rotabroach Cutter and decided to go to Harbor freight and get their 9:00 cutters. grabbed 4 of em and proceeded to do all the rest my 66 dart floor pan, trunk pan rear gutter trunk flange and all of the pieces of the cowl with those 4 cutters (I still have 1 hanging on the wall out of those 4) those were the best little cheapie tools that I have ever bought. there were about 200 just in the cowl-apillar-lower cowl section alone.. whew I got tired of cutting them out and almost decided to use a cutting wheel, glad I didn't though.

I was wondering if the HF ones were any good. Glad you mentioned them. I’ll get the from there. I’m going to need floor pans too. Found some really bad previous repairs under the carpet.

 

[66Dvert]

I was wondering if the HF ones were any good. Glad you mentioned them. I’ll get the from there. I’m going to need floor pans too. Found some really bad previous repairs under the carpet.

View attachment 1715178176

man those look GOOD compared to mine and there was about 30lbs of bondo in the cowl area(plus cardboard,newspaper window screen and other assorted goodies) originally a gold on gold car.

 

[Garethw]

Yikes, that WAS bad! At least my tunnel is solid so I have something to attach to. Where did you order floor pans from?

 

[Garethw]

DVert, also did you have the support going to the upper windshield frame just resting there? I can't tell from your pic. I'm assuming you made a sort of jig for placing the new pieces. That's what I'm planning on anyway.

 

[Garethw]

Well I started the transplant surgery. I’m all in now!

 

[66Dvert]

Yikes, that WAS bad! At least my tunnel is solid so I have something to attach to. Where did you order floor pans from?

Autobody specialties, was where I got mine from. after a little trimming they fit great, nice heavy metal too!

DVert, also did you have the support going to the upper windshield frame just resting there? I can't tell from your pic. I'm assuming you made a sort of jig for placing the new pieces. That's what I'm planning on anyway.

View attachment 1715178300

I just had a flat piece welded to the end of that angle iron that set the angle. I also cross measured mine to make sure it stayed square. then after I got the A-pillar put on (tacked it in 2 places) so I could adjust it if I had to. I measured it and aligned it up ,then welded the flat piece to the a-pillar just for rigidity since I know I'd be welding and grinding on that area and it might "heat" move on me.. but DANG you sure are going as deep as I did. good luck, Fun aint it? and lots of spotwelds .. I seam sealed the top hats and all my spotwelds that were internal to the cowl, epoxy sealer also to help stop rust shot the lip area with weldthrough primer and lots of seam sealer in that area too since I don't want to do that again.

 

[Garethw]

Sounds exactly like what I’m going to do also. Thanks again for posting your photos, those really helped!

 

[Garethw]

Making some progress. Got all the old cowl out, ground down and wire wheeled all the spot welds. Started cleaning up the firewall a little bit. Gonna need to replace some metal on the top of the panel that holds the door hinge on the passenger side.

 

[Garethw]

A little more progress finally. Got the lead all melted out from the donor piece. Got all the ground ground off from new and old pieces. Tomorrow should be the spot weld drilling marathon!

 

[Garethw]

Let’s hope new and old all come apart and play nice. Interesting that I didn’t find any lead in the convertible frame, only the hardtop donor part.

 

[66Dvert]

Let’s hope new and old all come apart and play nice. Interesting that I didn’t find any lead in the convertible frame, only the hardtop donor part.

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whooooooaaaaaaaa looking good, don't forget that brace like in post #3 or you will see it flex. looks like a really nice redo going on there.