Headers hitting idler arm

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Righty Tighty

Righty Tighty

Blame it on the dog
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Hey all,

I installed TTI headers on my car a while back on my '74 Barracuda, and not long ago when I was rebuilding the front end, noticed a divot in the header just above the idler arm. Looking at the divot, it's clear that the idler arm caused it from being far too close. My experience with the fitment of TTI headers has been great in the past, so I'm thinking it's an issue with the suspension sagging, or I need a spacer between the engine mounts and K frame. New shocks, new engine mounts. The divot was there before rebuilding and the spacing is still very tight after the rebuild. I've also noticed that the oil pan sits pretty close to the center link. 318 car that now has a 440.....does the 440 sit lower?

I added spacers on my Scamp a while back to help with clearance with great results, so I'm thinking that might be the route I go. I'm wondering if anyone has had this issue with their E body? I'll post some pics shortly.
 
Here are some pics. You can see where the idler arm has made contact with the header.

121BDCC7-B2D4-40AD-AAF8-BFB77EE5872E.jpeg
E32498E7-71C1-4EED-9CEF-53B9E1B3F935.jpeg
 
The TTI headers in my 65 Barracuda hit its idler arm. I just used a BFH to knock a clearance dent in the one tube that was hitting. Problem solved.
 
Thanks. So maybe I just got lucky with the Scamp? I wouldn't mind if it was just a fitment issue, because that would mean there's not a problem somewhere else.
 
The height of your centerlink (and thus your inner tie rod ends) is determined by the idler and pitman arms. So, unless your idler arm was totally wonky, the suspension rebuild in your case would have minimal effect on clearance. More likely would be your motor mounts going soft and spongy with age, allowing the engine to sit lower. Since you feel your pan clearance is also not what it should be, that is where I would start. Throw some new mounts in it and see where you are- if still not great, add a couple of shims. Just don't get carried away with shimming- remember, every quarter inch you raise the engine is a quarter inch less hood clearance on the top side.
 
I replaced the motor mounts when I did the rebuild and have just about exactly the same clearance before and after.
 
Same thing was happening on my Dart; idler arm was sawing a hole in the one header tube. I removed the header assembly and cut out the hole. Cut a piece of metal tubing in half (may have been 1" diameter but I don't remember) and welded it in with the concave side facing out. Ground down the welds, laid on high-temp header paint and it looks like it came that way. Gained about 1/2" clearance. Same effect as a BFH with a cleaner look.
 
I also dimpled the tube a tiny bit and used a die grinder with a red scotchbite on the offending tierod/ pitman/ idler arm .
Just a small amount in each area will give you more than enough clearance .
 
RBConvert said:
Same thing was happening on my Dart; idler arm was sawing a hole in the one header tube. I removed the header assembly and cut out the hole. Cut a piece of metal tubing in half (may have been 1" diameter but I don't remember) and welded it in with the concave side facing out. Ground down the welds, laid on high-temp header paint and it looks like it came that way. Gained about 1/2" clearance. Same effect as a BFH with a cleaner look.
Click to expand...
yep! done that fix a few times. I have had horrible experience with several header brands not fitting in a mustang with a 351W and had to make several mods to them.
 
I am watching this thread and noticed mine is hitting the pitman arm. 440 and Tri headers. I would guess the same fixes are involved.
 
mbaird said:
Taller trany mount .
Click to expand...

Furious65 said:
That's something a lot of people overlook. The transmission mount also helps control engine height/angle and needs to be in good shape. You can shim it as well as needed.
Click to expand...
Can either (or both) of you elaborate on the taller tranny mount? I was unaware that this was a possibility. I thought there was the crossmember that fit your car/transmission and that was that?

When I shimmed the engine on the Scamp, I used 3/16" plate and that gave me plenty of room. I agree that it wouldn't be wise to get carried away with shimming, so I think if I choose to go that route, making shims out of the same 3/16" stock would probably give me the room I need.

I guess the reason for posting here was that I was worried that something may have been wonky underneath and not simply normal fitment issues. I'll keep the thread updated as I make progress.
 
I went with a poly mount with was a bit taller . But you could just shim your existing one . You can also use truck isolators ( rubber mounts) which are taller than the car ones .
But it looks like you could just get away with dimpling the header using a 3/4 + deep socket and grinding the offending edge of whatever is making contact with the header.
 
I think I’m going to go with a pair of shims for now, might be a nice easy project for the CNC table.
 
Righty Tighty said:
Can either (or both) of you elaborate on the taller tranny mount? I was unaware that this was a possibility. I thought there was the crossmember that fit your car/transmission and that was that?

When I shimmed the engine on the Scamp, I used 3/16" plate and that gave me plenty of room. I agree that it wouldn't be wise to get carried away with shimming, so I think if I choose to go that route, making shims out of the same 3/16" stock would probably give me the room I need.

I guess the reason for posting here was that I was worried that something may have been wonky underneath and not simply normal fitment issues. I'll keep the thread updated as I make progress.
Click to expand...
You already have it figured out but, yes, a plate between the mount and the transmission or even the mount to the cross member will accomplish the same goal. Just remember that this will change your drive line angle a bit.
 
I thought that one of the main reasons for paying BIG bucks for TTI headers was that they fit so well.
 
Righty Tighty said:
Hey all,

I installed TTI headers on my car a while back on my '74 Barracuda, and not long ago when I was rebuilding the front end, noticed a divot in the header just above the idler arm. Looking at the divot, it's clear that the idler arm caused it from being far too close. My experience with the fitment of TTI headers has been great in the past, so I'm thinking it's an issue with the suspension sagging, or I need a spacer between the engine mounts and K frame. New shocks, new engine mounts. The divot was there before rebuilding and the spacing is still very tight after the rebuild. I've also noticed that the oil pan sits pretty close to the center link. 318 car that now has a 440.....does the 440 sit lower?

I added spacers on my Scamp a while back to help with clearance with great results, so I'm thinking that might be the route I go. I'm wondering if anyone has had this issue with their E body? I'll post some pics shortly.
Click to expand...
Pretty much, just get some really big thick washers and slot them. You can loosen the nuts and just pry bar the motor at the mount 'up' and slip them in.
 
Remember that TTI does build an excellent product. But they don't build the car or the engine or the mounts and they don't install them. That leaves a lot of variables on the table. TTI does give you the dimension charts for the different chassis models and engine sizes for you to verify Before you install their product. It is in the directions and on their website.
Cutting, grinding, washers yada, yada, yada means something is not right, it doesn't mean you have to do those things for the product to fit unless it was defective in which case that is what the warranty is for.
Footnote #39
 
Can you loosen the header bolts and see if you can adjust the header where you need it to be? you probably only need 3/8 to 1/2 inch. You probably have to wrench it into position, and have someone cinch down the bolts...
 
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TTI does build a good header but Ma Mopar wasn't the most consistent with build quality when new. Now, add 50 years of wear and tear, rust, repairs, accidents, etc, things are going to align even worse. TTI can't account for everything that's happened to everyone's cars over those years.
 
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