Help me build a fast 440!

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mopower440

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Heres the deal, I have a 1972 dart swinger. a few years ago i built a 440 for it and its fun and all but it isnt really all that fast, dont get me wrong, it fast but now what it could be. I want to make it right. The combo is not the best obviously. Currently the combo is: 1975 model 440 bored .030 over fitted with TRW 2355 six pack pistons with bone stock 452 heads. compression is right around 9.2:1. It has the MP 284/484 cam installed 4 degrees advanced. Factory stock cast iron intake. Demon sizzler prepped thermoquad carb that does really well. Hooker 1 7/8 fenderwell headers, and a 3000 stall convertor that also works quite well. It is a torque monster but quits pulling hard way before 6000 rpm..
Here is the deal, the thing has less than 1000 miles on it, so i would like to leave the bottom end alone, but everything else is fair game. I want some aluminum heads but there are so many out there now i have no clue which ones. Aluminum intakes, well, we all know the rpm is supposed to be the best but it wont fit under my flat hood, so trying to decide on the next best one that will fit. And im sure there is a better cam for the combo, maybe the MP 292/509, or something else?
This is just a fun car but may take to the strip sometimes and i do want it right..too many buddies with those silly hondas that are turboed and are a little bit fast..
Help me decide on a good fast combo.
 
mopower440 said:
Heres the deal, I have a 1972 dart swinger. a few years ago i built a 440 for it and its fun and all but it isnt really all that fast, dont get me wrong, it fast but now what it could be. I want to make it right. The combo is not the best obviously. Currently the combo is: 1975 model 440 bored .030 over fitted with TRW 2355 six pack pistons with bone stock 452 heads. compression is right around 9.2:1. It has the MP 284/484 cam installed 4 degrees advanced. Factory stock cast iron intake. Demon sizzler prepped thermoquad carb that does really well. Hooker 1 7/8 fenderwell headers, and a 3000 stall convertor that also works quite well. It is a torque monster but quits pulling hard way before 6000 rpm..
Here is the deal, the thing has less than 1000 miles on it, so i would like to leave the bottom end alone, but everything else is fair game. I want some aluminum heads but there are so many out there now i have no clue which ones. Aluminum intakes, well, we all know the rpm is supposed to be the best but it wont fit under my flat hood, so trying to decide on the next best one that will fit. And im sure there is a better cam for the combo, maybe the MP 292/509, or something else?
This is just a fun car but may take to the strip sometimes and i do want it right..too many buddies with those silly hondas that are turboed and are a little bit fast..
Help me decide on a good fast combo.
Click to expand...
Aluminum heads (ported), Aluminum intake, Aluminum radiator, Aluminum water pump housing etc...

Lopey cam, (but not toooooo lopey)...

Super thin head gasket...

Raise your compression...

Quick Fuel (aluminum) 800 or so carb...

Get it professionally tuned...
etc...
 
O.P.....: What is your fuel setup, from gas tank , fuel lines, to fuel pump?
 
I would try simply replacing your stock iron intake with a holley street dominator or M1 and see what that does. Should get you to pull a bit harder on the top end. You don't want to spin too much faster than 6,000 rpm anyhow with stock oiling. You still have the small pick up tube or is it upgraded to the Hemi style?
 
For hood clearance you want a holley street dominator intake. They are about the lowest carb pad height of any of the aftermarket alunimun intakes and work very well. The only issue you will run into is the secondary throttle plates hit the plenum with a TQ carb so you will need a short open spacer or just clearance the intake.
 
Like I asked on BigBlockDart. What is the $ budget amount?
 
mopower440 said:
Heres the deal, I have a 1972 dart swinger. a few years ago i built a 440 for it and its fun and all but it isnt really all that fast, dont get me wrong, it fast but now what it could be. I want to make it right. The combo is not the best obviously. Currently the combo is: 1975 model 440 bored .030 over fitted with TRW 2355 six pack pistons with bone stock 452 heads. compression is right around 9.2:1. It has the MP 284/484 cam installed 4 degrees advanced. Factory stock cast iron intake. Demon sizzler prepped thermoquad carb that does really well. Hooker 1 7/8 fenderwell headers, and a 3000 stall convertor that also works quite well. It is a torque monster but quits pulling hard way before 6000 rpm..
Here is the deal, the thing has less than 1000 miles on it, so i would like to leave the bottom end alone, but everything else is fair game. I want some aluminum heads but there are so many out there now i have no clue which ones. Aluminum intakes, well, we all know the rpm is supposed to be the best but it wont fit under my flat hood, so trying to decide on the next best one that will fit. And im sure there is a better cam for the combo, maybe the MP 292/509, or something else?
This is just a fun car but may take to the strip sometimes and i do want it right..too many buddies with those silly hondas that are turboed and are a little bit fast..
Help me decide on a good fast combo.
Click to expand...
Are you looking to make these changes incrementally or all at once??
 
IQ52 said:
Like I asked on BigBlockDart. What is the $ budget amount?
Click to expand...

well..not sure..lol..I guess im trying to get ideas on a certain head and a certain intake we all can decide on, then start pricing those certain items and go from there. Like i said, there is so many aluminum heads and intakes out there now that i have no clue what everyone likes the best, etc.. The reason i want heads is because everyone says the aluminums flow more out of the box than most good port jobs on iron heads..and also for the wight savings..I see edelbrock has several heads for big blocks, then there is trick flow, indy, 440 source, and more.. If i remember right from the past, Indys are probably out of my price range..
 
Hard to go wrong with the trick flow 240 and a holley street dominator if you want to keep it under the hood. There are better intakes out there but they are much taller.
 
Biggest issue is getting it to breath. Your limiting yourself by trying to keep it under the hood and the heads. And junk the cam. Purple shafts are good noise makers and thats about it. I had the same cam in my 340 and is was a dog. Went to Isky .507/300 solid and never looked back. Ran better and stronger up to 7000 till the block went boom.
Note that nothing else changed with exception to stainless valves and matching Crower springs and retainers for the cam. Only a little more valve train noise since I already had roller rockers and never had to mess with the adjumstment like you sometimes hear people say. (I payed the price upfront before the cam swap for Manton pushrods.)
 
mr68gts said:
Biggest issue is getting it to breath. Your limiting yourself by trying to keep it under the hood and the heads. And junk the cam. Purple shafts are good noise makers and thats about it. I had the same cam in my 340 and is was a dog. Went to Isky .507/300 solid and never looked back. Ran better and stronger up to 7000 till the block went boom.
Note that nothing else changed with exception to stainless valves and matching Crower springs and retainers for the cam. Only a little more valve train noise since I already had roller rockers and never had to mess with the adjumstment like you sometimes hear people say. (I payed the price upfront before the cam swap for Manton pushrods.)
Click to expand...


anyone know for certain if the performer RPM wont fit under the flat hood on a 440 dart? Ive heard both yes and no, so i kinda threw that idea out the window....
also, about the cam choice, i for sure want the cam to be one that takes advantage of the wider chrysler lifters..something that was truly designed for a mopar. So you dont think any of the MP cams would be a good choice?
 
If your worried about "using" the lifter then go Hughes. They have "real" chysler cams.
I will not get into my opinion of all that and muddle the conversation.
As far as the intake fitting your going to have to do some measuring as it willl change depending on where the engine is located/ what mounts you are using. Edelbrock may supply carb pad height dimensions if you ask them. (They used to anyway)
Just figure out how much clearance you currently have and add the manifold height difference into the equation. Most fit but there have been nstances where they will not because of improper engine height.
Paul
 
mopower440 said:
anyone know for certain if the performer RPM wont fit under the flat hood on a 440 dart? Ive heard both yes and no, so i kinda threw that idea out the window....
also, about the cam choice, i for sure want the cam to be one that takes advantage of the wider chrysler lifters..something that was truly designed for a mopar. So you dont think any of the MP cams would be a good choice?
Click to expand...
IQ52 has a ton of knowledge and can point you in the right direction. Read some of his motor build threads if you have any doubts. Better to listen to one guy that knows rather than trying combine everything the peanut gallery is throwing at you. You have a good platform to start with and just need the finishing touches.
 
diymirage said:
gearing ?
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gearing is the fastest, cheapest most dyomitest way to to 65 mph.
Forget 273s, 2.94s,and 2.anything.
forget 3.23s 3.55s and 3.anythings
forget 4.anything
But if you have traction issues with whatever you got going on back there, fix that first. You could be 60 footing in the 2.4 second range, and the Honda boys will teach you a lesson. More horsepower will not fix this. You can spend 6000 smackers or more,and move your 60fts to 2.2 and the Honda boys will still embarrass you.
Do not spend money on the engine until you can get your 60fts down well under 2.00, closer to 1.8 or even less. You can bet those Honda boys are not losing time on their 60fts.
It may take moving the springs inboard, and moving the axle back, and fitting really big tires. Or traction devices. Or bolting big heavy things into your trunk,lol. No don't do that!
Then if you are still not quick enough,gear it to hit 65mph maxed out in second gear, on the current "pos" cam. This might be 5.13s or more!
Make it stick.
You will want to hit 65 at about 6000rpm with a 727 trannie. ( no more tranny, Some guys on FABO don't like the word tranny. So mum's the word on tranny. OR maybe it was dizzy, I forget,yeah it was probably dizzy. I must admit, the first few times I read Dizzy, it almost made me dizzy,lol. But I got tired of typing distributor. Hunting for all those all-over-the-place-letters made me dizzy. Dizzy has just 4 letter locations, so typing "dizzy" drastically shortened my typing time. )
Ok now, you got the quickest car around, and it is still running that "pos" 284 cam.
So go get yourself a vanity-plate with "POS-284" on it, and nobody will see your traction devices, and so you will be in stealth mode. And when you explode off the line,
those pesky Honda boys
will now be the embarrassed ones.
Just don't go too far from home; 5.anything sux gas pretty good. Or is that pretty bad,lol.
 
Rpm intake, 850 cfm holley, super stock springs, pinion snubber, subframe connectors, battery moved to trunk, widest rear tire that you can fit, as mentioned earlier get the power to the ground
 
hotrod360andy said:
Rpm intake, 850 cfm holley, super stock springs, pinion snubber, subframe connectors, battery moved to trunk, widest rear tire that you can fit, as mentioned earlier get the power to the ground
Click to expand...
I dont think the rpm will fit under the hood of an RB dart..thats the problem.. I dont want to cut the hood up. I got to figure out the next best intake that will fit under there..
 
AJ/FormS said:
gearing is the fastest, cheapest most dyomitest way to to 65 mph.
Forget 273s, 2.94s,and 2.anything.
forget 3.23s 3.55s and 3.anythings
forget 4.anything
But if you have traction issues with whatever you got going on back there, fix that first. You could be 60 footing in the 2.4 second range, and the Honda boys will teach you a lesson. More horsepower will not fix this. You can spend 6000 smackers or more,and move your 60fts to 2.2 and the Honda boys will still embarrass you.
Do not spend money on the engine until you can get your 60fts down well under 2.00, closer to 1.8 or even less. You can bet those Honda boys are not losing time on their 60fts.
It may take moving the springs inboard, and moving the axle back, and fitting really big tires. Or traction devices. Or bolting big heavy things into your trunk,lol. No don't do that!
Then if you are still not quick enough,gear it to hit 65mph maxed out in second gear, on the current "pos" cam. This might be 5.13s or more!
Make it stick.
You will want to hit 65 at about 6000rpm with a 727 trannie. ( no more tranny, Some guys on FABO don't like the word tranny. So mum's the word on tranny. OR maybe it was dizzy, I forget,yeah it was probably dizzy. I must admit, the first few times I read Dizzy, it almost made me dizzy,lol. But I got tired of typing distributor. Hunting for all those all-over-the-place-letters made me dizzy. Dizzy has just 4 letter locations, so typing "dizzy" drastically shortened my typing time. )
Ok now, you got the quickest car around, and it is still running that "pos" 284 cam.
So go get yourself a vanity-plate with "POS-284" on it, and nobody will see your traction devices, and so you will be in stealth mode. And when you explode off the line,
those pesky Honda boys
will now be the embarrassed ones.
Just don't go too far from home; 5.anything sux gas pretty good. Or is that pretty bad,lol.
Click to expand...

Oh i definately got work to do to get it to hook.. I think it would get off the line right now pretty quick if it would hook because with the convertor i got, if i nail it from a dead stop, it will scare the piss out of me because it breaks sideways so damn fast i cant control it! So the rear end will be first. I am trying to find someone in the area that knows mopars that can do the inboard sprig deal for me..
 
mopower440 said:
I dont think the rpm will fit under the hood of an RB dart..thats the problem.. I dont want to cut the hood up. I got to figure out the next best intake that will fit under there..
Click to expand...
Can you use an air filter with a drop base??
 
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