Help me pick a clutch for my street/strip Dart- Centerforce Dual Friction Died!

Mopar Performance Issues

Twin Disc, Single Disc, Switch to an Auto you fool! Comment with your choice in the thread

  1. Twin Disc

    15.4%
  2. Single Disc

    7.7%
  3. Twin Disc with clutch tamer

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Single Disc with clutch tamer

    7.7%
  5. You can't race a manual and not break things. Switch to an auto!

    30.8%
  6. Single Disc sintered iron

    38.5%
  1. 68Dart500

    68Dart500 Well-Known Member

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    Need to get a new clutch (and pressure plate) for my 68 Dart and I'm hoping for some opinions from what others have run. It's a street/strip car so I put about 2k miles on the street and figure 8-10 sessions at the track.

    Specs:
    408 stroker (500 hp/540 tq) From 3500 to 5800 it's making 450+ ft/lbs torque at the rear wheels so its pretty hard on launch. I'm pulling the heads off to have them ported and I'm switching to a solid cam so these numbers will go up next season.

    • A833 4 Speed 23 spline (70 on up style (not ball detent).
    • Had a Centerforce Dual Friction and stock flywheel (clutch shit the bed after 1k street miles and about 16 drag passes).
    • Hydraulic clutch setup from American Powertrain
    • QT bellhousing
    • chromoly driveshaft
    • 1350 U joints
    • 8 3/4 with Moser axles, 3.55 (Currently) but 4.10 are sitting on the bench to go in now that the clutch failed and I'm done for the immediate future. Has an Auburn Pro LSD, 489 case with crush sleeve eliminator and the aformentioned 1350 yolk.
    • Mini Tubbed with 28x 12.5-15 Mickey Thompson Sportsman Pro (Bias Ply)


    I just pulled the transmission and the clutch / flywheel both need to be replaced. The clutch stopped holding when I shifted into second at the track on run 6. I coasted through the lights back into the pit. Even though I got off it as soon as I slipped it was 100% shot and wouldn't even move the car on flat ground. (I shifted into second and instead of grabbing it just slipped and I bounced the engine off the rev limiter for a second or two before I could let off).

    I'm looking for a clutch that will handle going to the track 8-10 times a year but also handle 2k miles or so a year on the street. I realize I probably will have to compromise somewhere but I'd like to find the best that I can. I called Mcleod already and they suggested their Twin Disc RXT clutch however my concern is that it would be too harsh for the track? I also was looking at RAM clutches both single and twin disc. I'm not afraid to spend money to get good parts but I also don't want to throw money away on a twin disc if its not really going to be beneficial.

    I've read about the clutch tamers but my concern would be that its actually hard on the clutch because it's slipping it every time I launch? Would a clutch tamer on one of these street strip clutches be ok or is that more for the race clutches that can handle slipping (sintered iron discs etc)?

    Appreciate any suggestions.
     
  2. mbaird

    mbaird mbaird FABO Gold Member

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    I am building a similar car and chose to go with the Mcleod RST and their 20 lb SFI flywheel. I have not run it yet so I cant say about performance.
    I also got a Clutch Tamer but for the life of me cant see how or where you can install it in an A-Body due to the handbrake and column placement ! No pics or videos available for guidance...
     
  3. yellow rose

    yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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    That's an issue with the clutch tamer. It don't fit without hacking the hell out of the dash and everything else around there.
     
  4. j par

    j par Well-hung Member

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    Interesting.:popcorn:...
     
  5. mbaird

    mbaird mbaird FABO Gold Member

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    When I spoke to him he made it sound like it is a bolt in procedure.
     
  6. yellow rose

    yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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    You should have added another option. That option is a single disc sintered iron set up. Done correctly, it won't break parts.

    McLeod makes them, Hyatt used to do them, Black Magic Clutches can hook you up with a B&B/Long cover that will fit your flywheel and he can make it with some adjustment.

    There is a guy in Idaho and I can't think of his name of the company.

    Either way, there is no way I'd ever use a dual disc clutch. You don't want all the disc weight. I had a long conversation with McLeod back in 2006 with my customer standing there. So was my boss. I kept telling my customer he needed a sintered iron clutch, but he was wobbly about it and McLeod didn't back me. They stuffed a dual disc clutch right up his ass. Then when it didn't work, he ended up with the clutch I wanted him to buy. He spent all that extra money because he didn't use his head.

    If you are beating on the car with bite, the LAST thing you want is a bunch of clutch beating the shit out of the car. Also, you need an aluminum flywheel. You don't need all that rotating weight.
     
  7. yellow rose

    yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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    LOL. Everything is a bolt right in if you are selling it.

    I've seen them in person. It was on a mustang. Which was built to be treated like a whore on coke anyway. So who care right? It actually fit in there pretty nice. But like you mentioned, the e brake is in the way in a MoPar. The rustang has it in the middle console.
     
  8. Fast340cuda

    Fast340cuda Well-Known Member

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    I have been happy with my single disc borg and beck long 3 finger set-up from McLeod. I have about 20 mid 11 second track runs on it launching the car at 4,500 RPM with slicks. It also gets street driven and gas about 5,000 miles on it. It is a little on the stiff side but I have never had any issues with it.
     
  9. mbaird

    mbaird mbaird FABO Gold Member

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    Any feedback on how well it worked?
     
  10. yellow rose

    yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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    They work. I still think tuning with the clutch is better, but what Grant makes does work. You just have to be willing to hack things up. At my age, I no longer do that to MoPar stuff. If you knew the cars I've owned, my brother has owned and my close friends have owned that were all abused and beat on...the amount of dollars wasted on cars that would be worth so much more...my first car was a 72 Demon. I was the second owner. It was 100% original, all numbers matching. All of it.

    I could kick myself for drag racing that car.

    If I was going to go back to drag racing, I'd buy a car that was already converted. Probably a rustang. That way I wouldn't feel bad about using it up.

    For the guy who doesn't mind cutting some stuff up, or who can't get a tuneable clutch, the Clutch Tamer is the answer.
     
  11. j par

    j par Well-hung Member

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    Wow, you sure have changed your tune...
    I remember some pretty heated arguments between you and wheelburner.
    I think at one point years ago he wanted to send me one for free just to prove you wrong LOL..
     
  12. yellow rose

    yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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    Like I said...IF you have to use it, they work.

    The issue I have is it actually slips the clutch. I still don't like that. Using the levers and counterweight, you actually control the engagement of the clutch. That's a HUGE difference.

    I also have to remember that some guys will NEVER want to learn to tune a clutch. And some guys will never spend the money for a good clutch. It's like stepping on your own dick. If you can't get them to buy a good clutch, and learn to tune it, then his is the only other option there really is.

    It's better that beating the shit out of the car and the tire, breaking parts and going slow. I'm still never going to say slipping the clutch is the best, quickest way to get the car moving and not breaking parts. It's not. But the alternative is breaking parts. It's the lesser of two evils.

    We also disagree on what a correct clutch graph looks like. But that's neither here nor there, because the guys who won't spend money on a clutch, won't have on board data logging.

    So that's why I say use it if you have to. The best way is still to use the clutch to control its engagement, and by that I mean once the clutch is out, the disc is fully loaded between the pressure plate and flywheel. Rather than the Clutch Tamer holding the pressure plate off the disc and slipping it. Again, two totally different ways of doing essentially the same thing.


    While I'm at it...it's 2020 almost. Why in the purple popcorn hell are people STILL using still flywheels? It's silly. It beats the hell out of the car, and the tire and makes tuning the chassis 10 times harder. Especially the Stroker guys.


    Back in the day (when drag racing was actually cool and you had Modified Eliminator and not just junky Comp Elimininator...which I like BTW...just not nearly as much as Modified) when you had under 300 inch engines moving 3000 pound plus cars, and the heads were weak you needed a 50-60 pound flywheel just to get the thing to move.

    You can YouTube Modified Elimininator and watch how cool they were. Dry hops are still cool. You can here how long it takes for the RPM's to come back down after it was revved up. Or how you had to feather the RPM up to leave. No two steps. Just dudes with balls that had to be wheeled in on flat bed trucks.

    I'm truly stuck in the wrong generation.

    Ok, I can feel a migraine coming on...
     
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    • yellow rose

      yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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      BTW...why didn't you do it? It would have helped you. You should have taken Grant up on it.
       
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      • j par

        j par Well-hung Member

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        you know I was listening to what you said til you started using profanity and then I didn't read the lasr three quarters of what you wrote...
         
      • yellow rose

        yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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        What profanity? Again, you stumble over a donut to pick up a turd.
         
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        • B3422w5

          B3422w5 Well-Known Member

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          Put an auto in it
           
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          • AJ/FormS

            AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s

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            I think heavy flywheels are for streeters like me; so we can blip, dump, and drive, no Mustaning the clutch. I hate that 5.0 slip it out bs.
            Or blip, dump, and whack it open with tires on fire.
            Tires are so much easier to swap out. I keep spares on hand, some even mounted ,lol.
            And the flywheel is so much happier.
            The CF-II disc I had could take a heck of a beating, but for me it was just too harsh for the street. ( I'm not 20something anymore)
            So I began using Mopar over-the counter 340 discs. I have blown up a few of those with my shenanigans; and in several different ways; Some spit out the springs, some tore off the linings,some did both, and one ripped the hub out. But that A833 can take a bit of a licking. All this with BFG Radial T/As, or Cooper Cobras,lol. You know; the no-bite crap tires. The 295s aren't much off the line, but my hi-compression 367 might have something to do with that; I learned to be kinder to them. They and the clutch returned the favor by lasting a lil longer.
            I know; not your concern, jus saying, so guys with streeters don't come away with a disappointing opinion of the Centerforce products.
             
          • yellow rose

            yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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            WTH??????? LOL
             
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            • yellow rose

              yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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              The flywheel gets blamed for the junky clutch. If you take an 11 pound FW, slap a 3000 pound (or even 2400 pound) pressure plate on it and it will be miserable to drive. That's not the FW's fault.

              To me, the days of pressure plate loads of more than about 1200 pounds are long gone. Don't want to break parts? Get a clutch that needs 800 pounds of base load, a sintered iron disc and an aluminum FW. It will drive better and be quicker and faster at the track.

              It's 1980's technology.
               
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              • AJ/FormS

                AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s

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                I agree; and reduced the static clamp load of my CenterForce............ Which doesn't seem to have reduced it's lifespan at all.
                 
              • TripleL

                TripleL Well-Known Member

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                Well I read here about every night and this will pertain to me shortly so what make and model / weight setup should I buy 74 duster 360 flat deck imm eq heads ( not purchased yet) maybe trick flow ( best choice there?) 833 83/4 3.91 sure grip
                 
              • rumblefish360

                rumblefish360 So close, yet so far away FABO Gold Member

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                @AJ/FormS

                :rofl:

                I’m not exactly disappointed in mine. Only a little bit. I’ve had my manual trans ride for a longtime now. Since I’m 19. I’ll just say it’s my least favorite disc right now.
                Easiest to drive on the street.... not so long lasting on the street strip front.

                This thread is of interest to me. The E body is street driven now though the engine will be a little beastie. It should push the heavy-ish car into the 11’s again for me.
                The Cuda is listed at 3650. And then add fluids and me @ 185. It adds up quick.

                I don’t know how heavy the original posters car is.
                But this should fall under nice to know.
                (cars weight and final clutch solution.)
                 
              • j par

                j par Well-hung Member

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                Get a diaphragm clutch and a clutch tamer....
                 
              • harrisonm

                harrisonm Well-Known Member

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                Just a suggestion. You could try calling the guys at Brewer Performance. They sell a variety of clutches and they are VERY knowledgeable.
                 
              • j par

                j par Well-hung Member

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                And likely resellers... Of this kind of product it ain't rate..
                 
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