HELP ..Runs dies No start .. then start

Electrical and Ignition

  1. 44070dart

    44070dart How the hell did I get this old

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    Thought the pick up was bad ..I put a new pick up in and took the car out, drove fine.. for about 40 minutes and quit which was what it was doing and why I changed the pick up.. Started right back up and drove a couple miles home.. :wtf: .. changed the ignition model with new one I had, > won't start ..put in original module ..it starts.. thought the new module I had was bad as it has laid in my garage for years, so I go this morning and buy a new module.. no start. put old one in, it starts... .again :wtf:

    5240794_cbw_me1a_pri_larg.jpg

    DSCN2851.JPG

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  2. raven64

    raven64 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Check the coil
     
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    • 44070dart

      44070dart How the hell did I get this old

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      ok ..... I think have an extra one in my stash, but why would it start with old module and not new because of coil ?? thanks
       
    • Dana67Dart

      Dana67Dart Like a fine wine, only getting better with age!

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      Is old module 4 or 5 pin
       
    • grjammer

      grjammer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      check back of module for bare metal, in the aircraft industry its called bonding, (to ground)
       
    • raven64

      raven64 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      The deal with stock coils is that there filled with oil to keep them cool. From time too time the oil seeps out. When this happens the coil heats up and creates a short. start with the cheapest thing first. I learned my lesson. I change all of the components except the coil. Come to find out it was the coil..
       
    • Dicer

      Dicer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      Make sure you have clean contacts between firewall, screws and ignition module, mod. must be grounded. Not a big fan of having the coil upside down, especially if its "oil cooled", most of the coil inside is epoxied at the bottom of the canister, coil must have a good contact with the oil. If the coil is epoxy or filled with epoxy it makes no difference.
      Oil vs Epoxy coils..... <<<< excellent post on coils.
       
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      • 44070dart

        44070dart How the hell did I get this old

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        Both 4 pin.. new module and new coil I had no start .. new coil and old module =start .. module is grounded to firewall, and ruffed up module at contact bolts points.. I scraped paint off firewall to make sure then checked with light.. wtf ..
         
      • Cruze426

        Cruze426 Member

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        My '78 Dodge Van did that once, it was the module. In the late sixties when I was a young punk at a dodge dealership, stock coils would fail when hot. Try new coil?
         
      • Dicer

        Dicer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        Looking at the picture you have included with your post, I notice three wires on the side of your coil, brown wire I get, but the red and blue?
         
      • 44070dart

        44070dart How the hell did I get this old

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        red wire goes to the auto choke and second looks like it goes to ballast resister, I think........ kind of hard to tell without opening harness.
         
        Last edited: May 19, 2019
      • 44070dart

        44070dart How the hell did I get this old

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        Got to be a ground.. but I've ground off the paint on the box at the bolt holes.. on the firewall.. even ran a wire from bolt to ground strap ......:BangHead:
         
      • Dana67Dart

        Dana67Dart Like a fine wine, only getting better with age!

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        What voltage do you get at the ballast resistor?
        Engine off key in run
        Engine on key in run

        Is the wiring harness oe?
         
      • BigBlockMopar

        BigBlockMopar BigBlockMember

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        Mount the coil upright first.
        Measure voltage at the coil with engine off, and once with engine running.
        Then get rid of the choke-wire, as a test. Use a different powersource for that if you really need the choke.
         
      • 44070dart

        44070dart How the hell did I get this old

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        Thanks for the input.. but I think were losing track of WHY it will run with old module and not the new.. to measure voltage running I need to install the old module and I'm sure it will be within limits because the car runs well with the old module, until it doesn't ...I have the new coil upright..removed the choke wire, nothing changed ..I know the thing is firmly grounded.. ground all the paint off both surfaces checked with light it's grounded as well as old one ... thanks, keep them coming because I'm at a loss
         
      • Dana67Dart

        Dana67Dart Like a fine wine, only getting better with age!

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        QUOTE="44070dart, post: 1972519211, member: 250"]but I think were losing track of WHY it will run with old module and not the new[/QUOTE]

        Not at all...
        My thinking is maybe the voltage to the old unit is borderline ok but the newer unit needs a higher voltage to opperate.
        Are you powering the control module with full 12v or ballast resistor voltage?
         
        Last edited: May 19, 2019
      • Dana67Dart

        Dana67Dart Like a fine wine, only getting better with age!

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        Which wiring diag is the module wired? e-ign1.gif 1.gif
         
      • 44070dart

        44070dart How the hell did I get this old

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        Not at all...
        My thinking is maybe the voltage to the old unit is borderline ok but the newer unit needs a higher voltage to opperate.
        Are you powering the control module with full 12v or ballast resistor voltage?[/QUOTE]

        OK .I'll check tomorrow I'm burned out today and might put a hammer through the windshield. thanks
         
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        • DemonK9

          DemonK9 Well-Known Member

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          ...new module might be faulty??? Quality control these days, is not what it used to be.
           
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          • 44070dart

            44070dart How the hell did I get this old

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            1.gif KEY ON ..using this diagram, what I have is ECU #1 to left BR 11.2 V..
            #2 - coil 10.45 V..

            #4 and 5 ECU to dist.
            ....
            3 wires - coil one to choke, other two to BR right side ..

            only have single ballast resister

            ..both sides of coil at 10.30 V ..

            also 11.2 V and 10.8 V at BR.. ONLY 4 wires at ECU ..
            if this makes any sense ..
             
            Last edited: May 20, 2019
          • Dana67Dart

            Dana67Dart Like a fine wine, only getting better with age!

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            Im a bit confused by your callouts.

            All voltage measurements should be between neg battery terminal to the point of measurement. IE, neg bat terminal to left side of ballast resistor, etc.

            Pin 1 on ecu should have 12v when key is in run and start. (This voltage source should not go through the balast resistor)

            Pin 2 should go to coil negitive (-)

            Pin 3 is not used on 4 pin ecu

            Pins 4 & 5 go to dist.

            Plus (+) coil should go to the opposite side of ballast resister from the 12v run feed

            The single balast resirtor diagram is correct, the pin locations are reversed because you are looking at the oppisite side of the connector

            Trace out your wires to be sure they are correct.
             
          • 44070dart

            44070dart How the hell did I get this old

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            You think your confused. In first picture striped wire is from negative side of coil
            . DSCN2862.JPG
            Second is the large one at the #1 position in diagram goes to the ballast res. left side along with other wire from harness

            DSCN2857.JPG DSCN2860.JPG third is the two wires to dist.
             
            Last edited: May 20, 2019
          • Dana67Dart

            Dana67Dart Like a fine wine, only getting better with age!

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            I think we are on the same page.

            Which side of your BR is attached to coil (+) positive?
             
          • 44070dart

            44070dart How the hell did I get this old

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            right side
            DSCN2858.JPG
             
          • Dana67Dart

            Dana67Dart Like a fine wine, only getting better with age!

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            Looks like everything is wired correctly.

            Maybe someone else can chime in regarding if the pickup is wired backwards will it have an effect on the ecu? ( not saying yours is, im just looking for a reason a new ecu would fail)
             
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