How are today’s as/ah cars different

SUPER STOCK HEMI Barracuda and Dart forum

  1. my68barracuda

    my68barracuda Well-Known Member

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    Question, how are today’s NHRA SS/AH legal drag cars that race today different from the SS cars that left Hurst Performance back in 1968.
    The cars are two seconds faster in the quarter,, where is that coming from?
     
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    • LO23M8B

      LO23M8B Well-Known Member

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      Believe it or not it started with the valve springs. Then it was the valve train couldn't keep up so you got the Jessel and T&D rockers and then data came in. It was just a progression as some of the rules loosen up. I'm not all that up to date on the AH cars but the AA cars started out in the day making about 600-700 hp and now about 1,200 hp. And think that's from 430 c.i. Also a ton of research as some of these guys have been racing in this class for over 50 years. There's more but you have to start somewhere.
       
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      • RustyRatRod

        RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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        I know tire technology has also come a long way.
         
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        • famous bob

          famous bob mopar misfit

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          TIRES, INTAKES, CAMS, COMP RATIO, HEAD REPLACEMENT OPTIONS NOW LEGAL,TRANS/CONVERTOR IMPROVEMENTS, K FRAME MODS TO KEEP THE FRONT WHEELS IN PERFECT ALIGHNMENT /OFF THE GROUND AND ALL THE WAY DOWN TRACK, WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION , ETC.
           
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          • Demonracer

            Demonracer 71 Demon 00 Ram 16 Chrysler 300S 05 Caravan FABO Gold Member

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            Suspension & tire technology have advanced quite a bit & builders have figured out how to squeeze the last bit of horsepower possible out of engines, transmissions, & drive components without the breakage of yesteryear.
             
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            • groundpounder

              groundpounder Active Member

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              Money!
               
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              • Dartnut

                Dartnut Don't hate me because i'm beautiful

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                Also, the cars are lowered a bit which helps with aerodynamics a lot.
                Rear suspension and tire technology has come a long way since 1968.
                Cams are physically bigger and have needle bearings instead of regular babbit cam bearings that reduce flex and friction rolling resistance.
                Head and intake technology is way further advanced.
                More accurate machining in the engines as well as more accurate balancing.
                Add it all up with rule changes compared to the past as well as 50 plus years of R&D, these cars are more expensive to build to be competitive, and last a lot longer when built.
                The cars as produced in 1968 were very crudely built and were intended to be a starting point for racers to build and make safe and competitive.
                They were not ready to race at all when picked up at Hurst or dealerships, contrary to what some people may think.......
                 
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                • hemicop

                  hemicop Well-Known Member

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                  Today's cars aren't even close to what the factory envisioned and what NHRA thought a "super" "stock car" should be. As mentioned, tires, suspension, cam, head, intake and suspension mods & rule changes have all contributed to the 2+second reduction the OP mentions---- not a good idea, IMO as these cars are now essentially P/S cars or at least Modified Eliminator cars that most can't afford or even have the ability to maintain IF they could afford one. A bad deal all around if you ask me...…….
                   
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                  • VOETOM

                    VOETOM Well-Known Member

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                    Lightweight A-904 parts in the 727B cases!
                    Tom
                     
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                    • LO23M8B

                      LO23M8B Well-Known Member

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                      Hi Dartnut. I'm a Dart nut also. The Hemi Darts were picked up at Chrysler transportation on Mt. Elliot and Caniff. I worked a 1/4 mile away and lived on Caniff. Actually they were built pretty well for 1968. The motors were not built to race as is, meaning camshaft and blueprinting. I know because in the 70's I purchased one that was not modified. They were really well built and fitment was good. Although the smashing in the right fender for clearance could have been done a different way. Stock right out of the factory they would run about 11.30's with slicks. Not bad in 68. By 1977/78 they were running 10.0 - high 9's. And they were still running SS springs. Today to run a competitive ss/aa car they start with a shell and build a complete specialized race car. And you better have lots of $$$. I agree totally with your statement except the crudely built as they were really neat vehicles.
                       
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                      • 67 gt

                        67 gt A Wog boy who loves his Mopars ! FABO Gold Member

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                        Fuel and engine management, electronics
                         
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                        • Dartnut

                          Dartnut Don't hate me because i'm beautiful

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                          Not disagreeing with you at all here, but by them being crudely built I was referring to the hammered in inner fender on the passenger side for valve cover clearance, the rear wheel openings being radiused using a torch in places, the wheel alignment was terrible, and the engines were just good enough to move the cars under their own power.
                          Anyone who bought one of these cars knew they weren't ready to run at the track as delivered.
                          The first thing to go would have been the tires and wheels to be replaced by their rolling stock of choice, then the engine would have been taken apart and blueprinted, then wheel alignment issues would be addressed, then body and paint...........just to start with.
                          The cars were just a good starting point for the racers who bought them.

                          My brother almost got one of the original SS/A cars in the early '80s from a guy in Washington state.
                          It was a real BO 4 speed car, and he was going to trade him straight across for his Superbird.
                          We saw the car in real life, and the owner explained about how they had to be breathed on when they were new to make them safe and competitive, as he had been around them since he was young and talked to several people who owned them from day one. As far as I know, he still is racing one to this day.
                          BTW, the value of both cars at the time was agreed to be $8,000 each!
                          Boy, times have changed...........
                           
                        • LO23M8B

                          LO23M8B Well-Known Member

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                        • LO23M8B

                          LO23M8B Well-Known Member

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                          Ya I purchased mine for $4.000. And the radius on the wheelwells on my car were done nicely and looked like factory but side to side was not exactly the same but real close. I know they were never modified by anyone because I striped the car. I actually stood at the fence where they were parked and at the time thought what the hell are these all about. The front end alignments looked good on them sitting there. But I'm sure they weren't 0/0/5 but what you probably don't know is Chrysler sent out new fabricated upper control arms to most of the racers to correct bump steer. I also watched a number of guys load them up on trailers and not one sounded like it barely ran. Although some of them came with street hemi pistons and not the 12.5 to 1's. One of our customers made the cams for them. The original Camcraft not the one of today. He used to bring me cams all the time and said here try this one out and see how you like it. Half of the time I didn't even get the specs on them. Yes they needed paint because they were really just primed light gray and the front ends were black primer. And yes if you were racing S/S you built your own engine. The windows worked well with the seatbelts. And the horn did work! And I just remembered when I got mine in the driver door was regular glass, the thin stuff didn't last too long in that door. They were great cars.
                           
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                          • LO23M8B

                            LO23M8B Well-Known Member

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                            You also have to remember there were different fabricators working on these cars. I might have been lucky and had a good one.
                             
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                            • Dartnut

                              Dartnut Don't hate me because i'm beautiful

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                              Thanks for sharing your stories.
                              That would have been awesome to see them sitting there and watching people load them up!
                               
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                              • LO23M8B

                                LO23M8B Well-Known Member

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                                Ya that was a great time in Detroit. I just took it all for granted and thought everyone lived like this. Wangers in his Pontiacs and his Mazda, Chrysler Engineers running the streets with Hemi's and the silver bullet running on Woodward. They even found one of the original Pontiac race cars just outside of Detroit and the guy that bought the house wanted to give it away or junk it, someone came by and told him what it was. Sold for $100,000 no motor/trans. and lots of rust. I really love all the muscle cars and pony cars. Did you know they used to call the mustangs and 340 darts and cudas pony cars. Because they were compact cars. lol. Lots of street racing. I was even a flag man for some street racers before I even had my license (maybe 13 or 14). A lot of shit still out there but no deals.
                                 
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                                • MAPS

                                  MAPS FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                                  LO23M8B
                                  Thanks for the history class of yesteryear cars from motorcity herself...
                                  I have a question, does anyone know why/how, the Mustang got the "Pony" handle ?
                                  Has nothing to do with Mustang, horses = ponies... etc.
                                  Thanks.
                                  MAPS
                                   
                                • LO23M8B

                                  LO23M8B Well-Known Member

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                                  Because back in the day they were considered pony cars not muscle cars. They were smaller and had smaller engines (at least when they started out).
                                   
                                • famous bob

                                  famous bob mopar misfit

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                                • MAPS

                                  MAPS FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                                  When the first set of Mustangs were sent to Germany they couldn't release from the ports using that name (there was a patent on it there) so they had to wait for new registration papers to come worth the "pony" name on them, and then we're let into the county for the dealers to sell them.
                                  I read that in fact not too long ago I will try to find that article to place here for others to read as well.

                                  Like every one else, we had the same story like you said but it seems there was this story too lol
                                  They say the Mustang was the first "pony car" engines in small cars etc but the Barracuda was actually out before the Mustang so that is wrong also..
                                  Barracuda, first pony car by 6 months ...
                                   
                                • LO23M8B

                                  LO23M8B Well-Known Member

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                                  See I can still learn something new everyday. Maybe that's where the name started? How about this one you know what Ford was thinking about calling the 82 Mustang GT's?
                                   
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