How Do I Fix This

[jonn6464]

Not sure if this is the right forum or not. Mods, please let me know if I need to move this.
These pics are of the quarter panel at the rear wheel well, looking from the door towards the rear bumper.
I swapped the 15" wheels for 17's and noticed a stark difference in the spacing of the tires to the quarter panel on each side.
The drivers side has 1.5" of clearance. The passenger side has 1/4" of clearance. I can barely get my pinkie finger between the tire and the wheel well on the passenger side.
Is there something that would cause this difference, and can I fix it?
I don't know if there have ever been new quarter panels installed so I can't say for sure if it's a case of body alignment gone wrong.
Just full transparency, this is on an E-body Chally with 8 3/4 rear end.
Thank you in advance for replies.

Driver's side...

Passenger side...

 

[RustyRatRod]

Perfectly normal. That's how the car was put together. Crooked. Noe of them is perfect. Not one.

 

[jonn6464]

Perfectly normal. That's how the car was put together. Crooked. Noe of them is perfect. Not one.

Dang Rusty! What are you doing up at this hour? I agree that we are dealing with late 60's technology and tolerances, but damn that seems like a big difference in clearance from one side to the other.
I guess my car was on the production line on a Friday at about 4:30pm.

 

[72bluNblu]

These cars definitely have some body tolerances issues, but anything much more than a 1/2” out is pretty unusual. You’re saying there’s a 1.25” difference, that’s huge.

Before you can fix it you need figure out where the issue is. Are the perches centered on the axle? Is the axle centered under the car/frame rails? What’s the distance from the rail to the quarter on each side?

Time to break out the tape measure and figure out where the discrepancy comes from.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Dang Rusty! What are you doing up at this hour? I agree that we are dealing with late 60's technology and tolerances, but damn that seems like a big difference in clearance from one side to the other.
I guess my car was on the production line on a Friday at about 4:30pm.

I would just get a port a power and a length of 2x4 and jack the narrow side out to match.

 

[jonn6464]

These cars definitely have some body tolerances issues, but anything much more than a 1/2” out is pretty unusual. You’re saying there’s a 1.25” difference, that’s huge.

Before you can fix it you need figure out where the issue is. Are the perches centered on the axle? Is the axle centered under the car/frame rails? What’s the distance from the rail to the quarter on each side?

Time to break out the tape measure and figure out where the discrepancy comes from.

Yes sir, I agree. I'll put her on the lift tomorrow and get some measurements.

 

[jonn6464]

I would just get a port a power and a length of 2x4 and jack the narrow side out to match.

Ok, school me on this.
I understand that a porta power is a hydraulic cylinder jack. I've never used one though. How would I "jack the narrow side out"?

 

[72bluNblu]

I would just get a port a power and a length of 2x4 and jack the narrow side out to match.

Riiighht. He’d blow all the paint off his quarter if he tried to go more than a 1/2”.

These cars have some pretty loose tolerances. But a side-to-side difference of 1.25” isn’t normal, it’s double anything vaguely normal. He needs to figure out what’s going on before he shadetree’s this onto a frame rack.

Yes sir, I agree. I'll put her on the lift tomorrow and get some measurements.

Definitely. If you haven’t downloaded the FSM you can get it from mymopar.com, they have the chassis measurements so you can check your frame rails too.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Ok, school me on this.
I understand that a porta power is a hydraulic cylinder jack. I've never used one though. How would I "jack the narrow side out"?

You're gonna have to back it up against something inside of the wheel well. The frame rail maybe?

 

[72bluNblu]

Ok, school me on this.
I understand that a porta power is a hydraulic cylinder jack. I've never used one though. How would I "jack the narrow side out"?

He’s telling you to just push the quarter panel out. If that was the issue it might be part of the solution, but pushing the quarter that far would total your paint and bodywork.

And it’s premature, because at this point you don’t know that the quarter panel is even the issue. You could push the quarter and still be driving down the road sideways because the rear axle is shifted.

 

[jonn6464]

Riiighht. He’d blow all the paint off his quarter if he tried to go more than a 1/2”.

These cars have some pretty loose tolerances. But a side-to-side difference of 1.25” isn’t normal, it’s double anything vaguely normal. He needs to figure out what’s going on before he shadetree’s this onto a frame rack.



Definitely. If you haven’t downloaded the FSM you can get it from mymopar.com, they have the chassis measurements so you can check your frame rails too.

I have a hardcopy FSM, so I'll definitely dig into that. I'm not about to just push out the quarter panel and hope for the best. My day job is engineering so, by nature, I'm going to work backwards until I find the discrepancy and then correct issues on a forward path.

 

[jonn6464]

You're gonna have to back it up against something inside of the wheel well. The frame rail maybe?

I'm a bit worried that trying to move the panel that much would result in creasing the metal. At some point the material will give way, at the weakest point, to the pressure being applied.
I think I need to get under the car and assess what is going on before I move forward.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I have a hardcopy FSM, so I'll definitely dig into that. I'm not about to just push out the quarter panel and hope for the best. My day job is engineering so, by nature, I'm going to work backwards until I find the discrepancy and then correct issues on a forward path.

I would in a Georgia minute. You'll get it closer than the factory did.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I'm a bit worried that trying to move the panel that much would result in creasing the metal. At some point the material will give way, at the weakest point, to the pressure being applied.
I think I need to get under the car and assess what is going on before I move forward.

You don't have to even them up. They were never even from the start. What I would do is jack that side out just enough so the tire will clear in all conditions. Over and done.

 

[jonn6464]

I would in a Georgia minute. You'll get it closer than the factory did.

Is it your belief that there's a problem with how the factory hung the panels, or that the frame could be out of square? Seems to me that either may cause this.

 

[pishta]

If you need to move the metal against the paint, you may want to try and apply some heat with a hairdryer or a heat gun prior to stretching it, it may give the paint a fighting chance.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Is it your belief that there's a problem with how the factory hung the panels, or that the frame could be out of square? Seems to me that either may cause this.

These cars were put together on an assembly line. With a quota to meet. Do you think these cats got the tape measure out with each one? Sure, if it was mine, I'd do some X measurements just to be sure it hasn't been hit and then poorly put back together at some point, but my bet is, this is a factory job. But to answer your question more directly, yes, it's my belief and experience that factory hung panels are not always straight.......by a country mile sometimes.

 

[RustyRatRod]

If you need to move the metal against the paint, you may want to try and apply some heat with a hairdryer or a heat gun prior to stretching it, it may give the paint a fighting chance.

I'll go along with that........but if you use a heat gun, use one that's adjustable and on the LOW setting.

 

[jonn6464]

If you need to move the metal against the paint, you may want to try and apply some heat with a hairdryer or a heat gun prior to stretching it, it may give the paint a fighting chance.

Good tip. If it comes to that, I'll keep that in mind.

 

[dirty white boy]

gonna need a good flat surface some twine and some plum bobs to figure this out...

 

[jonn6464]

These cars were put together on an assembly line. With a quota to meet. Do you think these cats got the tape measure out with each one? Sure, if it was mine, I'd do some X measurements just to be sure it hasn't been hit and then poorly put back together at some point, but my bet is, this is a factory job. But to answer your question more directly, yes, it's my belief and experience that factory hung panels are not always straight.......by a country mile sometimes.

Ok, that's all I was wondering. It's more probable that the panel is the issue, not the frame. The car drives down the road straight, so I never thought the frame was in question.
And yeah, you're 100% correct about the assembly lines of the 60's and 70's. "Tolerances" were more of a suggestion than a rule. Not that I'm slamming assembly workers in that period. It was just more acceptable, back then, to be a bit off.

 

[72bluNblu]

Is it your belief that there's a problem with how the factory hung the panels, or that the frame could be out of square? Seems to me that either may cause this.

It’s more likely that the panels are out, that’s absolutely true.

And if it were a 1/2” I’d chalk it up to factory tolerances and call it a day. But it’s not a 1/2”, or 3/4”, or even 1”.

It’s unlikely that the full 1.25” is in the quarter. There’s more going on. It’s probably a 1/2” here, a 1/4” there, etc, etc. But rather than just redneck it and hope for the best, it would be wise to figure it out before you just start moving metal because you can.

Factory tolerances were pretty loose, that’s absolutely true. A 1/4” this way or that is totally normal. But it’s fairly unusual to see the factory tolerances be more than a 1/2” out even on the body. And an 1” or more isn’t normal, even on these cars.

Maybe I’m wrong, I certainly have been before and I’m sure I will be again. But all it costs you is a few minutes with a tape measure to help narrow this down.

These cars were put together on an assembly line. With a quota to meet. Do you think these cats got the tape measure out with each one? Sure, if it was mine, I'd do some X measurements just to be sure it hasn't been hit and then poorly put back together at some point, but my bet is, this is a factory job. But to answer your question more directly, yes, it's my belief and experience that factory hung panels are not always straight.......by a country mile sometimes.

Not by over an inch Rob. A 1/4”? All the time, as a rule, absolutely. A 1/2”? Yup, happens, not that weird. 1” ? Sorry, not common. Maybe possible if all the tolerances are at the max and they all stack up in the same direction, but that’s not normal anymore.

A full 1.25” one side to the other isn’t just factory tolerances. Hell, even if it IS just factory tolerances, it’s not all from the quarter panel.

And, even if it WAS all from the quarter, it wouldn’t matter. I’ve pushed and rolled my fenders for clearance. If you get more than a 1/2” without blowing the paint up you’re doing pretty damn good. 1” will hammer the bodywork and paint. Might be best to know for sure that’s the issue before you commit to repainting the quarter panel.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

On my car I found the bracket that the leaf spring was bolted to was forward on the passenger side 1/2 inch . I put Longer bolts on the leaf spring hanger and mad a spacer out of 1/2 plate aluminum. This also made the car stay straight when heating the tires.

Although like stated get a tape measure out . I have had a car heer that had a quarter skin put on. some quarters skins are made to fit over the original. They used the door lip bend and removed the original so it would have spot welds showing. This moved the wheel house back and cause the same effect as you car.
The first thing to do is measure from the door back If that's the same your only choice is to move the spring hanger back. Look at your rear shackles. Are they at the same angle when the car is on the ground?

these are only some of the issues that could be wrong. you will have to figure whats off. But you can move the rear back with spacers as stated

 

[rumblefish360]

Could be a replacement panel (poorly) hung on the bad side of factory tolerances?

 

[George Jets]

Dog Tracking rear axle. Square your rear axle to the subframe.

Simple cross check from the 1" holes in the front of the subframe in front of the rear axle to the u-bolt threads at the shock plates.

Also put a white chaulk mark center line at the botton of the brake backing plates and cross check measure to there too.

Have seen some pretty big centering holes on the spring perches where the leaf spring center bolts drop into.

Loosen the U-bolts and square it up with a porto-power, or pull it square with a come along, or both . . One on each side to move in desired direction.

Retighten U-bolts.