how do you feel about electric performance cars?

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  1. GEO

    GEO Sarcasm Inc.

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    That has to be the stupidest answer today
     
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    • pt70

      pt70 Well-Known Member

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      The positive would be a rush. The negative would be a crush. ----- Gotta go and rest up. Kick off is at 10 o'clock. C-SPAN and others. Getting excited, and glad that impeachment eve is over.
       
    • aaronk785

      aaronk785 Well-Known Member

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      Just the idea of it being forced on us is enough I'll never own one. The companies building these things could give a shit less about the climate. It's all about the money.
       
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      • MRGTX

        MRGTX Well-Known Member

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        The thing that has always made me love cars is the interaction between the machine and the driver. The engine feels like a living, breathing thing with a beating heart. With an old hotrod, the engine and the driver are a team. Tuning, maintaining, and extracting the best possible performance requires that the driver is involved and engaged.

        With electrics, the car doesn't even need you. It can do everything on its own. Electric cars have HUGE advantages which sucks almost all of the fun out of it. We now have sedans that any old granny can get in, push a couple of buttons and run a 10 second quarter mile. Literally. What the hell is the point?

        They're undeniably cleaner, easier to maintain, cheaper to run, quicker to accelerate. I can't believe how little those advantages mean to me on an emotional level.

        Don't knock it until you've tried it.
        I tried one of those Impossible Whoppers...went back for a few more! They're damn near as good as the real thing! I like the idea of being able to eat a burger and not turn into a fat slob with cholesterol coming out of my nose. If it's easier on the environment, all the better.

        I hope you're right...but it seems like it's easy enough to make everything with an electric motor do 0-60 in 3 seconds which doesn't leave much room for hotrodding. What's the point when the rolling jellybean (Tesla Model 3) can keep up with a Ferrari?

        Check out how much pollution/energy consumption comes from that industry. Clean that mess up and we can go back driving to big block C Bodies to work every day. Between clearing trees for farm land to grow the feed, the land and energy to tend to them, the methane that comes out of their butts, the energy to refrigerate and transport meat...it's not sustainable on a planet with 7.5 billion people.

        As far as I know, you're right on with some of your points here. My input is that you may be suffering from a lack of imagination and faith in human ingenuity. :D
        These problems are solvable.

        Yes. Batteries do lose performance with cycling. Internal resistance increases as they chemically break down with each cycle. That said, internal combustion engines deteriorate with use too. The rate of performance loss is probably pretty darned similar. 100k+ mile Teslas are showing ~90% of their battery performance is intact. The software minimizes the most abusive conditions for batteries (running too low, overheating, etc).

        The waste from used-up batteries is a concern but the components of the batteries are largely recyclable. The lifetime cost has been analyzed over and over again...and electrics come out on top. Nearly zero maintenance, significantly lower cost per mile offsets the cost of the batteries, apparently.

        Good point about the electrical grid but this can and will be upgraded as needed.
        Electricity generation is definitely a source of pollution. The net production of pollution and CO2 emissions is still lower than having each car burn it's own fuel apparently. Plus, pollution can more easily be managed when it comes from one source. Electricity can be generated in part from renewable sources like solar, geothermal, hydro power...that diversity of sources is a huge plus. We're not reliant on OPEC or the system of refineries that just happen to have a fire or another reason to shut down when fuel prices are low. :rolleyes:

        As for taxpayer subsidies...I don't know about these. There is a tax break on purchasing them that doesn't apply to normal cars which is supposed to help get the tech off the ground. Is that what you mean? That won't last too much longer, I would guess.

        Yeah. The supply of lithium is a bottleneck. There are a lot of people trying to come up with the next battery tech. The pollution associated with lithium are significant but have you seen what it takes to get aluminum out of the ground? Huge electrical consumption on top of the environmental damage from any kind of mining...

        Good call. Range definitely takes a hit in the cold weather. This is a big problem but it's not exclusive to electrics. Internal combustion cars get worse mileage/range in the cold too. Denser air requires a more fuel to maintain the right mixture. Once the engine is totally warmed up, the difference isn't that big (and you can make more power thanks to the cold air) but a lot of extra gas is wasted in the mean time, never mind the raw fuel emissions that come from cars with cold catalytic converters.

        As someone who has views that can be categorized as conservative and some that would be called liberal, I just want to say cut this crap. We can handle disagreeing and debating so long as we remember that we're on the same team. Both "sides" have good points from time to time and we succeed by taking the best ideas from each. Just my .02
         
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        • 69_340_GTS

          69_340_GTS Well-Known Member

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          You will always have to drill for oil and gas. It will always need refining. Because: everything, including that "clean" electric car needs lubrication. More and more vehicle parts are being made from plastics. Actually, there will be even more use of plastics in the future. We still need fertilizers, asphalt, pharmaceuticals, rubber, paint, waxes, and all sorts of other chemicals. After you make all those compounds from the crude oil you're left with a bunch of other stuff. Stuff we burn as fuel. What are the oil companies going to do with all that fuel if it isn't going to get burned for transportation?
          Refined-Product-Pie-Chart-e1562963801331.png
           
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          • MRGTX

            MRGTX Well-Known Member

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            That's an interesting chart. I never thought about it that way.
            I don't think anyone said that we will (or should) stop refining oil completely though.

            The quantity of refined oil will absolutely go down as electric powered personal transportation grows...but you're right that we will still have good uses for oil.

            I don't believe that they necessarily use more plastics than conventional cars and they absolutely don't use more oil for lubrication. Am I wrong about that?
             
          • 69_340_GTS

            69_340_GTS Well-Known Member

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            No, I never said more oil for lubrication. But, yes, more plastics are going to be used. You don't make batteries or wiring out of aluminum or iron, which are still the main ingredients vehicles are made from. Much of those metals will be replaced by some sort of plastic.
             
          • YY1

            YY1 Well-Known Member

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            Our son bought a tesla model 3 about a month and a half ago.

            Dual motor option.

            "neck snapping" is perhaps an understatement to describe the acceleration.

            0-60 in 3.2 seconds

            This past weekend he downloaded and installed an "update".

            Now 0-60 in 2.9 seconds

            That's Ferrari quick.

            Interestingly it's only a 13 sec 1/4 mile. Must be governed on the top end. I'd imagine 10 sec.

            I am still waiting on a report as to their average electric bill.

            We discussed last night about a meaningful average, factoring in the changing of seasons and household A/C use.

            If it was doubling or tripping people's electric bills, I'm pretty sure we would hear about it.

            ...of course you offset that with what you don't spend at the gas pump, and hopefully come out ahead.

            BTW the SRP on the model 3 is $38,000.
             
          • 69_340_GTS

            69_340_GTS Well-Known Member

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            Cheapest long range-AWD one around here "used" is $50K. Your son did not pay anything close to $38K for his car. MSRP, before options, on Model 3 is $39490-$59990. Again, their advertising is very misleading. Plus the damn things are butt-ugly IMHO. https://www.cars.com/shopping/tesla-model_3-2019/
            usc80tsc032a021001.png
             
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            • YY1

              YY1 Well-Known Member

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              He's pretty tech savvy, pretty good about getting good deals, and NOT a liar, thank you very much.
               
            • 69_340_GTS

              69_340_GTS Well-Known Member

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              You indicated that SRP is $38K. You never said he paid $38K. All I'm saying is he did not pay under base sticker for new one with AWD, when the SRP for a decently-optioned AWD car is more like $50K minimum. Not calling anyone a liar. What did he pay for it?
               
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              • Keystone

                Keystone FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                I'm curious too. Not that I'm shopping for one, but the Model 3 was hyped as this game changer that would let the average car buyer into the Tesla family. Because before that they were basically toys for rich people. They've obviously managed to get many more people into the market, but it seems you still have to be substantially more well heeled than the average new car buyer to afford one.
                 
              • Kern Dog

                Kern Dog Well-Known Member

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                I'll tell you what, Lipshitz....YOU can ask the site owner about becoming a Moderator. If that ever happens, THEN you can bark orders.
                Until then, piss off with your "cut this crap" comments.
                 
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                • MRGTX

                  MRGTX Well-Known Member

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                  It must suck to be so thin skinned.
                   
                • famous bob

                  famous bob mopar misfit FABO Gold Member

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                  I have avoided this thread -----simply not interested !!
                   
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                  • A56

                    A56 MoParAffliction

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                    Quite honestly, it never ceases to amaze me that an opinion is criticized for being an opinion, by another opinion when in fact the original opinion was a joke.
                     
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                    • MRGTX

                      MRGTX Well-Known Member

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                      I see you’re the one who liked his furious, triggered response expressing his criticism of my opinion. What did you like about it?

                      Based on your post, it sounds like you felt sorry for him having his feelings hurt.

                      He also got my name wrong. Can anyone explain where that came from? Seems like a very specific guess.
                       
                    • 67Dart273

                      67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                      LOLOLOL Do they take Makita batteries?
                       
                    • MRGTX

                      MRGTX Well-Known Member

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                      They do!
                      Makita tools made in recent years use 18650 Lithium Ion cells. Tesla packs are made from Lithium Ion 18650 cells too.
                      The big difference is that the Tesla pack uses 7000+ cells and your 18v drill uses 5 cells or so.
                       
                    • A56

                      A56 MoParAffliction

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                      Believe it or not, the first amendment even applies to others.
                       
                    • MRGTX

                      MRGTX Well-Known Member

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                      Agreed and thank you for acknowledging that.
                       
                    • Derrick Kidwell

                      Derrick Kidwell Well-Known Member

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                      Can't hear a thing cricket, cricket, no sound no fun​
                       
                    • Oldmanmopar

                      Oldmanmopar Going left turning right FABO Gold Member

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                      The one I was in was an SUV. You have to drive one to appreciate the feel of the G-force. My first impression was that I was driving a golf cart. Once you stab that throttle its like nothing you ever experienced. Don't get me wrong I love the sound of a V8 with a large cam and loud exhaust. This Tesla was a different animal and a experience you all should have before you give an opinion. I would love one for a daily driver stop light to stop light in traffic. Sneaky and very quick.
                       
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                      • Derrick Kidwell

                        Derrick Kidwell Well-Known Member

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                        Probably won't get the chance but I guess you never know
                         
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