how large a bore with a sleeved block?

Discussion in 'Small Block Mopar Engine' started by abdywgn, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. abdywgn

    abdywgn dismantler

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    what is the largest bore you can get out of a std block with sleeved cylinders? and this could be a two part question: A) sleeves with water circulating between them and B) sleeves that would be surfaced to fit tight to each other. just curious. you know, idle minds...that and thinking while cleaning the garage.
     
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    • toolmanmike

      toolmanmike FABO Staff Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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      Can't answer those questions accurately. Every block is a bit different. They need to be sonic checked to figure out how far to go.
       
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      • abdywgn

        abdywgn dismantler

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        I guess my question was not clear, my wife says I have this problem. what is the largest sleeve that can be put in a small block...after removing the entire bore what while fit? are the head bolt holes the limiting factor or water passages on the deck? it's more of a how large a bore can be put into the block?
         
      • toolmanmike

        toolmanmike FABO Staff Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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        Back to my explanation, it all depends on how thick the cylinder walls are. One block may have core shift and can't be bored much more than .060 before hitting water and the next one could be bored .120. You have to sonic check the thickness to figure how far it can safely be bored. It also depends the OD. of the sleeve. Each machinist may have a different idea on how far on can go safely.. There is no specific answer.
         
      • toolmanmike

        toolmanmike FABO Staff Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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        You have to leave a certain amount of material for the sleeve. You really can't grind the bores completely out and sleeve a block. Many diesel engines are that way but the block is specifically designed for it.
         
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        • abdywgn

          abdywgn dismantler

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          the idea was to remove all of the original cylinder and replace it with sleeves. there is the question: after doing that, how large of a bore could you achieve?
           
        • toolmanmike

          toolmanmike FABO Staff Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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          You can't. That's my point.The block isn't designed for it. Yes I suppose you would be limited to the cylinder head bolts but it can't be done.
           
        • abdywgn

          abdywgn dismantler

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          is the block architecture so different between a 351C and Mopar SB that it could not be done? I believe that was done in the early P/S days for match racing?
           
        • abdywgn

          abdywgn dismantler

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          Glidden was ONE of several racers that had furnace brazed blocks. Dyno Don , Lee Hunter , Gapp and Roush, all had them. They were done in Michigan and there was a 50/50 chance that the block would be usable afterward. The "prepared" block with chromoly sleeves in place was placed in a huge oven/furnace to melt the brazing material an essentially create a "one piece " block . The block then had to be carefully cooled ( very slowly) to prevent cracking. The block had to be completely re machined as the extreme temperature in the oven caused the block to "move" a bit. The process was VERY expensive and most Pro racers only had one if any.
          okay, not practical but just curious.
           
        • MOPAROFFICIAL

          MOPAROFFICIAL Well-Known Member

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          Not a whole lot...because of the bore spacing restraints. 4.25 bore I'm sure...$$$$$ Best of luck
           
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          • abdywgn

            abdywgn dismantler

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            not a project for me, just a wondering mind of what could be...and the "be" would be cheaper to purchase an aftermarket block IF I was in that boat.
             
          • JBurch

            JBurch Well-Known Member

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            Contact Darton Sleeves......about as straight an answer as you'll get..........I had the same thought, and guessing based on what was done with the sprint car block, 4.25 would be the largest you could go, in therory

            Darton did market (don't know if they still do ) an interlocking sleeve kit for the 5.7 Hemi......no deck left, sleeves were free standing and studs up from the bottom of the case to secure the heads

            OOOPP"S my mistake..........kit was/is for the 6.1
             
            Last edited: Dec 4, 2018
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            • abdywgn

              abdywgn dismantler

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              Thank-you! I will keep that in mind if/when my ship comes in.
               
            • 383Scampman

              383Scampman Well-Known Member

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              There are several way to sleeve a block but I will describe two of them . the first is boring out the cylinder to the outside diameter of the sleeve . Put sleeve in the freezer for several hours to shrink it and pound it in with a block of wood and a B.F.H. The second one is a common one used in heavy duty diesels but is also used in Top fuel/Alcohol Hemi's. This sleeve is the bore on the inside and the water jacked on the outside . A tool (called a "sleeve puller") is used to remove the sleeve . A glorified slide hammer. There is a step at the top of the block to keep the sleeve from going too far down the hole . sometimes the sleeve has a flat at the top, also to keep it from rotating . I have pulled sleeves from stationary diesels that are the size of a 55 gallon drum . But that's for another time . So , to answer your question . the sleeve is limited by the head bolts and by the center to center distance of the bores .
               
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              • toolmanmike

                toolmanmike FABO Staff Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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                Yes yes yes. The diesels have a counterbore and sealing rings to keep the coolant out of the combustion chamber on the top and bottom. Most have no water jackets. As I said earlier, those blocks are purposely designed for that kind of sleeve.
                 
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                • 604B1duster

                  604B1duster Well-Known Member

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                  I think I remember a post on here about someone doing crate motors with 8 sleeves and large bores using 318 blocks, maybe paw ??? Not sure who, but they were removing the whole cylinder
                   
                  Last edited: Dec 7, 2018 at 11:18 AM
                • 604B1duster

                  604B1duster Well-Known Member

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                  340 Block Bored to 4.160????? Help
                   
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                  • moper

                    moper FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                    Darton would be the right guys to ask. And hook yourself up with a highly skilled modern race machine shop - the process to modify a block for the Darton setup is long, and it has to be done on top-of-the-line equipment.
                     
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                    • whitepunkonnitro

                      whitepunkonnitro FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                      Going beyond the factory recommended overbore limit ( generally .060) exponentially reduces rigidity at the deck surface.
                      Block that are designed for sleeves have their head bolts anchored to the spine of the block and not the deck, directly.
                       
                      Last edited: Dec 7, 2018 at 4:59 PM
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                      • 604B1duster

                        604B1duster Well-Known Member

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                        • rumblefish360

                          rumblefish360 so close yet so far away

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                          The problem with taking out the entires cylinder sleeve is sealing the new sleeve in the block without water leakage.

                          Otherwise, your going to bore the cylinders out to a min. Thickness to fit in the replacement sleeve.
                           
                        • RustyRatRod

                          RustyRatRod Just another dumbass. FABO Gold Member

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                          They've all pretty much stopped listening to experience. You're wasting your breath.
                           
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                          • toolmanmike

                            toolmanmike FABO Staff Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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                            And common sense.
                             
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                            • harrisonm

                              harrisonm Well-Known Member

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                              Agreed. I love it when someone asks a question and then argues against the helpful answers received.
                               
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                              • RustyRatRod

                                RustyRatRod Just another dumbass. FABO Gold Member

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                                ...and some folks accuse ME of having an attitude. They never stop to wonder why. LOL