How much would be left on the table?

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metallidart

metallidart

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If you were to run 1 5/8 headers on a w2 headed, big solid cammed, 10.7:1 422 cube small block, how much power would you be missing out on?

Also, what size would be optimum? 1 7/8?
 
Tough to say without some dyno testing. TTI's 1 3/4 are good to 475 according to them. I'm running schmachers and made 503hp on the dyno. (with 2" headers) I don't think it's holding it back that much.

Tough to say without some dyno testing.
 
Kinda what I was thinking. Reason I ask is I am selling the 5.9 I just built and I am getting a super deal on a set of w2 long valve econos with 2.08/1.65, I just have to have the seats cut for the valves and do the porting. Thats pretty much going to take up my budget, and as long as the heads have both exhaust patterns I was just going to run my 1 5/8 el cheapo headers til I have money for bigger ones.
 
Depends on a lot - head flow, camshaft, rpm points, the rest fo the exh system... I think you "could" be leaving a significant number on the on the table depending what the goal was. But it all depends. They are easy to upgrade later if that's what you have.
 
My cam is a solid comp custom grind, 250/254@.050, and .584/.568 lift, 275/288 adv, and a 104 lsa (yeah, I typed it right lol.) I will only have 1.5 rockers, and those specs are for 1.6. I am going to have 2.08/1.65 valves put in (would that make a big difference in flow over the 2.02's?). I will port them myself, from what I have seen and read, you dont have to do anything extreme to get good numbers out of them (I hope lol). I do want to study up on the short side and find some pics of how it should be. The heads are the 995 long valve econos with 70cc chambers, I couldn't remember the exact compression so I just kind of estimated for the purpose of this post. Zero deck flattop JE with 2 valve reliefs, 4.100 with a 4" stroke. The guy I bought the shortblock from had them custom ordered (I still have the spec sheet) for 12.5:1 with 60cc heads. Forged crank, H-beams, girdle, bushed lifter bores, the machine work receipt is huge.
The intake is a toss up, either a Strip Dominator or an Indy single plane. 3.73 gears for now, 68 Dart 2dr post, 904 (I will get a custom converter). I will run 3" exhaust and probably turn it down right after the rear, for now.
I am really contemplating a larger cam. I will go solid because I can't afford a roller right now. Even thought of sending this one to Bullet for a regrind, but I want alot more lift and the duration at .050 to be in the 260s. I would also like to bleed of some cylinder pressure.

Does the combo sound ok? Anything you would change, or maybe a cam/specs in mind?

Thanks moper!
 
Depends on the RPM range of the unit . Yes,1 5/8" is small unless your stuck with restrictions. That camshaft is tiny for any HP so maybe the tiny headers are not so far off.
 
I have had a few people tell me the cam was on the small side. This is my first big cube small block, I am used to mainly 360s. I am kind of thinking a cam with about 260ish/270ish@.050 and around .580-.600 lift would be what I am looking for, to match the heads, compression, etc. It will be a street car, but I see no reason not to maximize the potential, especially while I have it apart. Any thoughts? Also, I'm not sure I want to spin it much past 6500, if even that high.
 
metallidart said:
I have had a few people tell me the cam was on the small side. I'm not sure I want to spin it much past 6500, if even that high.
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That cam isn't small.. especially with that centerline that is a pretty healthy cam. I'm running 242@.050 in 440 with a 112 centerline. My father runs a ever so slightly smaller cam in his 454. His is a small centerline like yours. Similar power, very different idle charateristics. YOu'd think there was way more cam in his.
 
Thats the first thing I thought when I saw the lsa, man, this is gonna sound awesome! I bought it with dyno time only, it was in a 340 with w2 heads, and a restricted carb for circle track, and it made a little over 500hp. I figured with 80 more cubes, 2.081.65 valves, unrestricted intake/carb, I may be able to best that without having to rev much past 62-6300. I guess I am beginning to get greedy for power though lol.
 
The cam is on the small side... For certain applications and considering the size of the engine...

Don't worry about the cam size now. They change out easy enough.
Now header size! They don't change out as easy and are expensive.
I would run either a tti or (Headman Heeders) @ 1-3/4 at a min. on the street.

Considering the stroke length, I really do not see the engine spinning that high for peak power.
As mentioned before. A dyno would be real helpful.
 
I have never had an engine on a dyno, how much does it generally cost? I know of a few places within an hour drive that has one, maybe I will have to call around. I thought about using the small headers for now only because I will pull the engine next spring to paint the engine compartment, and I may be able to save up some by then. The Hooker 5204s are 1 3/4, I think, and sometimes I see them for sale fairly cheap. Heck, I wouldnt even be afraid of cutting the inner fenders for fenderwells, I have already replace the upper portion of both of them, and a small peice under the master cylinder on the shock tower, so it isn't like I need to worry about keeping them mint.
 
Costs vary as well as services performed. Call around and ask about this and there equipment.

If it is stingy or generous in readings.
What system they have.
Headers available for your engine? and if yours fit the dyno chassis.
Ask about how much to run test and tune the engine and how many runs you get at the cost.
Then how much more for additional runs.
If they have tuning kits for your carb
Time it takes on average.
Header swaping Ok?
Will they tune it?
Tell them your new to this and Ask everything you can think off.
 
I think the difference would be minimal. JMO.
 
take a stock LA head exhaust header gasket and put it on the w2 exhaust port.....
 
You my want to go ahead & put single exhaust on it.
That you only have to buy 1 muffler.
I think its a bad deal.
Minimum would be a 1 7/8 tube that matches the port.
That 1 5/8 tube header with LA port will be noticable.
 
pictures...kind of backwards...look from bottom up
 

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Holy crap! I didn't even consider the mismatch from the port differences. Looks like I may be looking for W2 headers, or la headers and some W2 flanges. Thanks for pointing that out! I think it would be a waste to put W2 flanges on the small headers haha. If I'm gonna do it, I might as well do it right. I guess. LOL
 
If it's a street car and you want to run pump gas, and you run the 250/254 104 LSA camshaft, I would learn how to spell detonation.
 
IQ52 said:
If it's a street car and you want to run pump gas, and you run the 250/254 104 LSA camshaft, I would learn how to spell detonation.
Click to expand...

Thats exactly what I was afraid of with that cam. I emailed comp cams about a cam recommendation, and he gave me a grind similar to that one. I told him what I wanted, exactly what you just said, something to help the engine more pump-gas tolerable, and he said what I had would work fine. From what I have read, in regards to lsa, etc, to me it seemed like it was the opposite of what I needed. I figured, what do I know? Must be something I am missing.

Now that I know what I am going to do about headers, I'm going to ask, what would you (any/all of you) recommend for cam specs? I dont have a converter yet, I'm not dead set on a gear ratio either.

I know the quality of the headwork will be a BIG factor, but with 1 7/8 headers, long valve 2.08 W2s, 422 cubes, 10.5-10.7 or so (still havent done the math), a Victor W2 intake, probably a 950hp carb (not that far yet lol), what would get me close to 600hp with a solid flat tappet?
 
Everyone always gets bent out of shape about tube sizes, you have to remember, it's only gonna flow as well as the tubes tightest point, and that's usually the flange and bends.
 
Been here,done this. The 260/270 flat tappet,nice and mild. 1 3/4 minimum primary .Go get it.
 
Abodybomber said:
Been here,done this. The 260/270 flat tappet,nice and mild. 1 3/4 minimum primary .Go get it.
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Sweet...thats what I like to hear! I might just call Bullet and a few other places to see what cam I can come up with. I found a set of 1 7/8, but plans changed (again) and I may be putting it in my Dart Sport, which will have PS unless I can find a way to use a 68 manual box with 73 steering linkage. Some recent threads on here have me a little confused on what works with what.
 
metallidart said:
Thats the first thing I thought when I saw the lsa, man, this is gonna sound awesome! I bought it with dyno time only, it was in a 340 with w2 heads, and a restricted carb for circle track, and it made a little over 500hp. I figured with 80 more cubes, 2.081.65 valves, unrestricted intake/carb, I may be able to best that without having to rev much past 62-6300. I guess I am beginning to get greedy for power though lol.
Click to expand...

Mine with 242@ .050 was done at 5600ish. You're probably right on. It shoudl sound mean. I made 467-505 depending on the tune, carb and intake combo. Dyno time is usually 500$ and worth every penny.

IQ52 said:
If it's a street car and you want to run pump gas, and you run the 250/254 104 LSA camshaft, I would learn how to spell detonation.
Click to expand...

Not sure why. It's not crazy compression and it will bleed off plenty of cylinder pressure at lower RPMs. TIming will be key. Most guys have too much timing and way to fast of a curve for street use.


DOn't get too hung up on HP numberas. Some dyno's are generous and others stingy. They are for break in, testing and tuning. The HP numbers are a relative result.
 
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