I am Sooooo Confused over Paint

Mopar Body and Trim

  1. charliec

    charliec FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    637
    Likes Received:
    1157
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2017
    Location:
    richmond texas
    Local Time:
    10:00 AM
    The title says it. '68 Dart. I will try to lay all the paint myself since I don't particularly need a show-car finish. Just want it to be acceptable, not exceptional. It'll be a weekend driver. Not a lot of straightening or filling to be done. No paint booth available. I don't want to spend an arm and a leg in a paint shop and wait forever to get something back that may or may not meet the "acceptable" criteria. So, I'm investigating paint, methods, etc. trying to educate myself before I waste time and money. Watching videos, reading articles, but I tell you they seem to be all over the board. Example: Eastwood has about 3 (maybe more) different brands of primers that they sell (Eastwood, Evercoat, POR...) and two or three different primers (expoxy, self etching..) and two or three different primer/fillers. To complicate matters, the properties of each seem to overlap; (high build, sandable, excellent adhesion over all sub-strates...); they all do it all. Eastwood labels required catalyst; Evercoat and POR seemingly don't. So which one to pick? The cheapest? Highest rated? :BangHead:

    Then, there's equipment. HVLP, Conventional Gravity, Conventional Siphon....

    Then there's color coat. Single stage, base coat/clear coat,...

    What do you do with engine compartment? Is there a single paint "type" good for both engine bay and exterior body?

    Under trunk lid, under hood, trunk, door jambs/hinges, etc. the same paint as the rest? But what if I'm using base/clear? Do you do those areas the same, or is a single stage appropriate substitute for those seldom viewed areas?

    Ultimately I know that no one can make these decisions but me, but dang it, it's got my head spinning. I don't want to go spend hundreds on the wrong and/or incompatible stuff.

    Is there a "Car Painting for Dummies" book out there somewhere?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
    • dartfreak75

      dartfreak75 Restore it, Dont part it! FABO Gold Member

      Messages:
      10,526
      Likes Received:
      8134
      Joined:
      Aug 10, 2011
      Location:
      Virginia
      Local Time:
      11:00 AM
      Spi
      Use there epoxy on bare metal do your body work over it then use their high build primer then whatever base your chose and spi universal clear. There customer service in hands down the best! And you can text Barry and ask for help at pretty much any time. He recommended I get my base from a guy name Chad he sent me some high quality stuff and my job turned out amazing. I have nothing but a harbor freight compressor and a harbor freight paint gun. I sprayed outside also. If I can do it anyone can. Spi is top quality and affordable I highly recommend it! I'll have to dig thru my phone and find you some pics.
      https://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/epoxy-primer
       
      Last edited: Jul 12, 2021
      • Agree Agree x 4
      • Like Like x 3
      • dartfreak75

        dartfreak75 Restore it, Dont part it! FABO Gold Member

        Messages:
        10,526
        Likes Received:
        8134
        Joined:
        Aug 10, 2011
        Location:
        Virginia
        Local Time:
        11:00 AM
        Here are some pics of my paint job as you can see i did the engine bay and door jams and all the areas I can't get to later then when the body work is finished I can just paint the outside

        20190802_200012.jpg

        20200407_182129.jpg

        20200407_182221.jpg

        20200407_182045.jpg

        20200528_051003.jpg

        20200525_142101.jpg

        20200524_151255.jpg

        20200525_142112.jpg
         
        • Like Like x 7
        • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
        • RogerRamRod

          RogerRamRod The Older I Get, The Faster I Was FABO Gold Member

          Messages:
          1,044
          Likes Received:
          658
          Joined:
          Jul 5, 2011
          Location:
          Chesapeake VA
          Local Time:
          11:00 AM
          X 2 on SPI
          I had my car done by a local guy on the side. He really liked the SPI stuff EXCEPT he’s a sprayer in a high volume shop and isn’t used to the wait times some of their stuff requires.
          Used the SPI Epoxy, some filler, sealed work with more epoxy & painted my car with shop line ( I think) from the local NAPA paint supply, & cleared it with a few coats of the SPI
          After now seeing the whole process, if I was to do it again, I would probably tackle it, I just didn’t want to have what turned into an expensive 8 year project loosed up by trying to paint myself with 0 experience
           
          • Like Like x 4
          • lenky1

            lenky1 Well-Known Member

            Messages:
            639
            Likes Received:
            288
            Joined:
            Jul 30, 2014
            Location:
            illinois
            Local Time:
            10:00 AM
            Paint is a tricky subject. I did body and paint for 20years. You can ask 100 guys and get 100 answers. My advice to you is educate yourself as much as possible. Go to shops and talk watch videos etc. Generally with paint you get what you pay for in terms of material. But nowadays there are many good lower priced alternatives. The best thing i can recommend is start with quality materials from the bottom up. Epoxy first then body work. Good primer/sealer. After that topcoats are about all the same nowadays
             
            • Like Like x 2
            • Agree Agree x 1
            • Jim Kueneman

              Jim Kueneman FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

              Messages:
              2,063
              Likes Received:
              4179
              Joined:
              Jul 26, 2016
              Location:
              Sonoita, Az
              Local Time:
              8:00 AM
              All painted with SPI products (Automotive Arts Motobase for the Blue and Turquoise base). These are the only 3 cars I have painted and they were all done outside and guided by Barry and the folks on the SPI forums.... SPI customer service and techline (which is the owners cell phone) can not be matched. Also the dollars are thousands not hundreds of dollars for quality products by the time you get done unfortunately.

              34707609_1988429204563426_950061085296164864_o.jpg

              164094241_3883072975061924_1198940183160332162_n.jpeg

              DSC_0111.jpg
               
              Last edited: Jul 10, 2021
              • Like Like x 8
              • Agree Agree x 1
              • dartfreak75

                dartfreak75 Restore it, Dont part it! FABO Gold Member

                Messages:
                10,526
                Likes Received:
                8134
                Joined:
                Aug 10, 2011
                Location:
                Virginia
                Local Time:
                11:00 AM
                Moto base is what I used also! Did you get yours from Chad's ?
                 
              • dartfreak75

                dartfreak75 Restore it, Dont part it! FABO Gold Member

                Messages:
                10,526
                Likes Received:
                8134
                Joined:
                Aug 10, 2011
                Location:
                Virginia
                Local Time:
                11:00 AM
                You do amazing work! I have followed all three of your builds your skills blow my mind!
                 
                • Agree Agree x 1
                • Jim Kueneman

                  Jim Kueneman FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

                  Messages:
                  2,063
                  Likes Received:
                  4179
                  Joined:
                  Jul 26, 2016
                  Location:
                  Sonoita, Az
                  Local Time:
                  8:00 AM
                  yes sir.
                   
                  • Like Like x 1
                  • Outsder

                    Outsder way back when

                    Messages:
                    146
                    Likes Received:
                    72
                    Joined:
                    Sep 5, 2019
                    Location:
                    Northwest
                    Local Time:
                    8:00 AM
                    For what its worth, paint advice from a non-paint skilled, more engine builder type. Just did some painting, outdoors, for the first time in about 35 years. Had to buy all new paint supplies and since I've been buying stuff from Summit because they have good stock and ship fast I thought I would give them a try for paint. Painted a new glass hood for my project with the Summit brand 2k high build primer and single stage urethane. It looks like the Summit stuff is less expensive than the SPI products from what I can see. Happy with the results, more fumes than I remember from the days I used the old Centari product and was glad to have the HF $18 P95 respirator.

                    If you don't have anything, buy a modern low pressure gun, HVLP or something, seems like a $150 should buy one that works for a first timer; because I had it don't plan on doing too much paint I used my 40 year old Binks conventional gun with a high pressure of about 55psi.

                    Whatever brand paint you use I would say buy all the paint products from the same source and don't mix brands of paint and activator, etc. Buy the epoxy for the bare metal and 2k surface primer to smooth it out, pre paint surface cleaning products, gun wash solvent, fish eye remover, etc. Buy all your top-coat at once and mix the paint, (1 gallon + 1quart for a Dart?), so the whole car looks the same. You might be ok with the single stage on the underside side stuff and save some, but I imagine you would want to finish with a gallon of a few coats of clear on the exterior.

                    Its probably going to take more paint and cost a lot more than you think; it was about $300 for supplies to paint my hood, but I have left over from the gallons of primer and top-coat for a later deck lid project. If you follow directions and try a little practice before putting paint on the outside of your car, you can do it.
                     
                    • Like Like x 2
                    • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
                    • 92b

                      92b FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

                      Messages:
                      125
                      Likes Received:
                      70
                      Joined:
                      Oct 25, 2013
                      Location:
                      Breda,Iowa
                      Local Time:
                      10:00 AM
                    • dartfreak75

                      dartfreak75 Restore it, Dont part it! FABO Gold Member

                      Messages:
                      10,526
                      Likes Received:
                      8134
                      Joined:
                      Aug 10, 2011
                      Location:
                      Virginia
                      Local Time:
                      11:00 AM
                      Fk5 burnt orange its a factory color
                       
                      • Like Like x 1
                      • 92b

                        92b FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

                        Messages:
                        125
                        Likes Received:
                        70
                        Joined:
                        Oct 25, 2013
                        Location:
                        Breda,Iowa
                        Local Time:
                        10:00 AM
                        Nice, Thank you.
                         
                        • Like Like x 1
                        • plymouth67

                          plymouth67 It be a lot cooler if you did...

                          Messages:
                          1,603
                          Likes Received:
                          2088
                          Joined:
                          Sep 13, 2010
                          Location:
                          illinios
                          Local Time:
                          10:00 AM
                          I agree that you don't mix products. Different manufacturers use different solvents in there products and, it can cause bad reactions such as lifting or crows feet. Epoxy first then, body work after that 3 heavy wet coats of 2K filler primer then, start blocking...priming....blocking...when you think it's good...prime and block again. After that I put 2 more wet coats of 2K on and wet sand with 400 to remove and sand scratches.

                          Your paint job will only be as good as your work is underneath it. I never paint a car that I didn't do the body work on....NEVER!!!
                          I only use PPG products and have never had an issue. Cleanliness is paramount when it comes time to paint....here are the last few I painted.

                          20200806_185225.jpg

                          63157.jpeg

                          IMG_20140119_141715_724.jpg
                           
                          Last edited: Jul 11, 2021
                          • Like Like x 6
                          • jos51700

                            jos51700 Green Bearing thread connoisseur

                            Messages:
                            5,843
                            Likes Received:
                            2628
                            Joined:
                            May 24, 2009
                            Location:
                            Bel-Ray
                            Local Time:
                            10:00 AM
                            Okay, best thread I've read in a LONG time!

                            I've got a car that's got cancer, bad.
                            When pulling parts like frame rails and rocker panels and replacing them, what's the prep to insure no more cancer?

                            Weld through primer, weld em in, good to go, or is there a way and a product to put inside to make they stay rust free? Add drain holes?
                             
                            • Like Like x 1
                            • Bodyperson

                              Bodyperson Pedal to the metal FABO Gold Member

                              Messages:
                              6,740
                              Likes Received:
                              9549
                              Joined:
                              Nov 26, 2015
                              Location:
                              NW MONTANA
                              Local Time:
                              9:00 AM
                              In the world of structural welding, there is no such thing called "weld through primer". A good primer over properly prepared metal ground away from the weld zone is the proper repair from my point of view.
                              There is an awesome product called "Like 90" that penetrates the weld zone better than any other product I have found.
                               
                              • Like Like x 1
                              • jos51700

                                jos51700 Green Bearing thread connoisseur

                                Messages:
                                5,843
                                Likes Received:
                                2628
                                Joined:
                                May 24, 2009
                                Location:
                                Bel-Ray
                                Local Time:
                                10:00 AM
                                So it penetrates AFTER you're done welding?
                                 
                              • Bodyperson

                                Bodyperson Pedal to the metal FABO Gold Member

                                Messages:
                                6,740
                                Likes Received:
                                9549
                                Joined:
                                Nov 26, 2015
                                Location:
                                NW MONTANA
                                Local Time:
                                9:00 AM
                                If you can get to it. It wicks very well. Don't get me wrong. I have used tons of weld through primer. For structural welds the weld zone should have the least amount of impurities as possible.
                                 
                                • Agree Agree x 1
                                • barbee6043

                                  barbee6043 barbee 6043 FABO Gold Member

                                  Messages:
                                  14,771
                                  Likes Received:
                                  7686
                                  Joined:
                                  Jul 20, 2008
                                  Location:
                                  Shepherd, Texas ( SE Tx)
                                  Local Time:
                                  10:00 AM
                                  And remember lots of sheetmetal rusts from the inside!!!
                                   
                                  • Agree Agree x 1
                                  • Jim Kueneman

                                    Jim Kueneman FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

                                    Messages:
                                    2,063
                                    Likes Received:
                                    4179
                                    Joined:
                                    Jul 26, 2016
                                    Location:
                                    Sonoita, Az
                                    Local Time:
                                    8:00 AM

                                    When it is apart it needs to be blasted to Grey metal (no dark pits that is rust) then 2 heavy coats of epoxy before you assemble it. Most of the professionals on the SPI forum just use SPI epoxy for the “weld through primer”. Grind a drill flat to use as a scraper to clean out then epoxy in the spot weld hole before welding. The epoxy can take a lot of heat. When done try to brush epoxy from the inside and let it ooze into the welded joint. About the best you can do without a big tank of epoxy and dip it 1/3 of the way up like the factory did.
                                     
                                    • Agree Agree x 2
                                    • Bodyperson

                                      Bodyperson Pedal to the metal FABO Gold Member

                                      Messages:
                                      6,740
                                      Likes Received:
                                      9549
                                      Joined:
                                      Nov 26, 2015
                                      Location:
                                      NW MONTANA
                                      Local Time:
                                      9:00 AM
                                      This is exactly how I do it too. Then use the "Like 90" product.
                                       
                                    • barbee6043

                                      barbee6043 barbee 6043 FABO Gold Member

                                      Messages:
                                      14,771
                                      Likes Received:
                                      7686
                                      Joined:
                                      Jul 20, 2008
                                      Location:
                                      Shepherd, Texas ( SE Tx)
                                      Local Time:
                                      10:00 AM
                                      I grind the new welds, then soak just the weld area in Ospho, (phosphoric acid solution) second wet coat and then neutralize with water. BR CAREFUL, if not neutralized you can get a reaction with the epoxy primer you apply over it!!!
                                      I treat inside of doors and any other area I an get to and used either epoxy primer, then then urethane or enamel topcoat, then undercoat etc. Inside of doors and insides of trunk extensions and inside of fenders at the brace are always waiting to bit your ass later!
                                       
                                    • Jim Kueneman

                                      Jim Kueneman FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

                                      Messages:
                                      2,063
                                      Likes Received:
                                      4179
                                      Joined:
                                      Jul 26, 2016
                                      Location:
                                      Sonoita, Az
                                      Local Time:
                                      8:00 AM
                                      After I grid them I just bring out the blaster and blast the weld area before more epoxy. Another option.
                                       
                                      • Agree Agree x 1
                                      • Jim Kueneman

                                        Jim Kueneman FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

                                        Messages:
                                        2,063
                                        Likes Received:
                                        4179
                                        Joined:
                                        Jul 26, 2016
                                        Location:
                                        Sonoita, Az
                                        Local Time:
                                        8:00 AM
                                        Also please don't use those products.. you hit the nail on the head without maybe realizing it... do you know what activates those products? moisture..... They were made to coat oil rigs out in the ocean so need to cure in a wet environment. What the professional restoration guys on the SPI site will share is their experiences with vehicles that they knocked the POR off and the metal under was gone. It absorbs moisture to dry then traps that moisture against the metal and it continues to rust. There will be proponents of POR and those type products saying the metal was not prepped correct. My argument is if you spend the time to remove all the rust to prep it right then all you really need after that is epoxy primer anyway.
                                         
                                        Last edited: Jul 12, 2021
                                        • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
                                        • Agree Agree x 1
                                        • barbee6043

                                          barbee6043 barbee 6043 FABO Gold Member

                                          Messages:
                                          14,771
                                          Likes Received:
                                          7686
                                          Joined:
                                          Jul 20, 2008
                                          Location:
                                          Shepherd, Texas ( SE Tx)
                                          Local Time:
                                          10:00 AM
                                          ^^^ I agree. Clean metal, epoxy primer, AND topcoat that with urethane primer AND topcoat with whatever, on the floors, etc Good ole thick and heavy Rusteoleum enamel works great! IF not floors, topcoat with real auto paint, acrylic urethane, enamel or bc/cc. Screw POR15!
                                           
                                          • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
                                          • Agree Agree x 1
                                          1. This site uses cookies to help personalize content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
                                            By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.