I have a few lifters making noise until well warmed up

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jerry6

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do you think it's a problem that needs immediate fixing , re replacing cam and lifters , or is it possible that I can keep driving it without an issue ? When it starts cold the lifters make a lot of noise , as it warms up it gets less noisy , when warm no noise at all .
I plan on changing the heads this fall or winter , just wondering if I should push up the schedule . Don't want to have a bigger problem where I'l have to change pistons and redo the crank and rods .

Thanks
 
Hi Jerry. In my experience, lifter noise doesn't go completely away as the engine warms, considering your oil gets thinner. Piston noise/slap, does get better as the engine warms up, but I doubt that's your problem.....

To me, it sounds like you may just have a exhaust leak.....probably at the header flange?
 
So any idea what we're workin on? A Chevy with a solid roller?
 
RustyRatRod said:
So any idea what we're workin on? A Chevy with a solid roller?
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:D He's got a regulation 340, bolt on's, and a upgraded hyd cam Rob.

My across the street neighbor had a Durango with a cracked manifold. When he started it and left for work, it sounded like a air hammer driving down the road...lol. When he came home, all warmed up, it was just about dead quiet...
 
OldmanRick said:
Hi Jerry. In my experience, lifter noise doesn't go completely away as the engine warms, considering your oil gets thinner. Piston noise/slap, does get better as the engine warms up, but I doubt that's your problem.....

To me, it sounds like you may just have a exhaust leak.....probably at the header flange?
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N o , don't think so , a bunch of mechanics listened in , they all thought it to be lifter noise , not an exhaust leak type of noise , unless the guys at the garage are wrong as well , but I doubt it , they have been building engines for 40 plus years . ,, Don't think it's pistons , not that kind of noise , I know that from my old loose 440 , that is more of a cluck cluck than this noise .
I'll have another look at it , try to record it , really sounds like dry lifters when starting cold and gets quiet as it gets warm . I'll check all the header gaskets , just in case , does not make sense a bad lifter going quiet once warm , should be some noise , right ??

And for the others , sorry , it's a 340 hyd cam 10.5:1 forged Mahle pistons alu edelbrok air gap with a holley 750 street avenger .
 
My truck had a small flange leak and it sounded like chit at idle but it went away at speed, warm it wasnt much better. new gasket cleared it right up. Buddies old 2bbl 302 would rattle those lifters for a full 5 minutes before they quieted down. Drove like that forever. lifters have a small ball check valve in there. There is not much to go wrong in there except maybe a hung up lifter piston. you CAN take them apart and clean them. might even snake them out through the head so you dont have to disturb the intake.
 
RustyRatRod said:
So any idea what we're workin on? A Chevy with a solid roller?
Click to expand...
HMMMM I wonder ? My sig and the pic on the let give a hint ? Must be my Nissan pathfinder , I ask about my Dart on the pathfinder forum , and my Pathfinder on the A BODY SMALL BLOCK FORUM .
Canadian retard what you expect .
 
All I know from about 30 years of workin on cars is usually, lifter noise is less cold when the oil is thick and gets worse as the engine warms up. How fresh a build is this?
 
RustyRatRod said:
All I know from about 30 years of workin on cars is usually, lifter noise is less cold when the oil is thick and gets worse as the engine warms up. How fresh a build is this?
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Built 4 years ago , about 10,00 12,000 miles on it , oil filter changed every 3,000 miles using synthetic 10w 40
 
Has your oil pressure been consistent since the engine was built?

Although it sounds "hillbilly".....If you can get a helper to stuff a few towels in the tailpipes while you observe the header area for leaks/sounds, it could rule out the exhaust as the cause of the noise?
 
OldmanRick said:
Has your oil pressure been consistent since the engine was built?

Although it sounds "hillbilly".....If you can get a helper to stuff a few towels in the tailpipes while you observe the header area for leaks/sounds, it could rule out the exhaust as the cause of the noise?
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Oil pressure is fine 40 lbs idle 60 -75 when over 3000 rpm . I'll check the exhaust , at night with the tailpipes blocked , should see as well as hear any leaks , have not ruled it out yet . Or it could be like the 302 mentioned above , just freak lifter. Really is bothering me , hate to have something go bad in this engine .
 
Sounds almost like the lifters are leaking down oil on some (when setting up on the cam lobes). Not sure if it applies to this engine, but are you using an oil filter with an anti-drainback valve? Some lifters will lose oil more easily and be noisier if the oil drains completely away from the lifter gallery.

And, it could just be the individual lifters getting 'leaky', if some gum or dirt gets in the check valves. My son's 4.7l lifters rattled like crazy for a coupla mintues at startup. We just re-did the heads for a head gakset leak and put in all new hydraulic lash adjusters and it is now quiet at startup. DId the same for a couple fo Misu 2.6L engines and for my wife's old 3.5L V6...same issue: worn/gummed/dirty hydraulic check valves.

Some times you can find this by just pulling the lifters and putting them in a can of fresh oiol and pumping each with a pushrod. Good check valves will pump up hard in a few strokes; a lifter with a bad check valve will not pump up hard if it is really bad...but you won't find all of them this way.

Funny Pishta mentioned a 302....mine did the same!
 
I'll agree with lifters leaking down. Engines stop in the same position most of the time. Evidence of this can be seen in ring gear teeth wear. This means the same lifters rest under load.
I'll go so far as to say if you start it every day the lifter noise is less and quietness quicker than if it sits for days between starts.
This was the condition we had in a 93 Lebarron 3 ltr V6. Wife drove it daily without a sound. let it sit for several days and 1 lifter would tick for 2 or 3 miles.
 
My 340 does the same time if it sits for too long. One lifter gets load and stops ticking after a couple of blocks of driving!
 
My buddy's 440 had the same symptoms. Turns out several, like 6, of his original pushrods were bend slightly. You could see that they were bent when you spun them in a drill. We replaced them and the noise went away.

You can often isolate the sound using a 3 foot long piece of auto heater hose held to one ear. Be careful of moving engine parts!

Also, a well-known cam manufacturer advised me to add a quart of regular old automatic transmission fluid to the engine oil and run it between changes until it cleans out the lifter plungers. I've had that work, plus it really cleans the inside of the engine. Its just light weight oil with a very high detergent package and some other additives that won't harm your motor.

What motor is this? a slanty or a V8? Check the rocker shaft for wear, but keep the rocker arms and all other parts in order.

If it is an exhaust leak, order up a set of Remflex gaskets, straighten up the exhaust flange mating face with a long body board and some sand paper.

Congratulations on finding a solid convertible. Most are rust buckets. If you are going to replace the top any time soon, they tend to rust right where the rear of the top bolts to the body. Be prepared to treat that area if and when you have it in to the upholsterer to get the top done. It's one of those spots that you can't really see to well until the rear top restraints are removed.
 
Strange no noise today . Can't see it being sludge , I change the oil and filter often and have used synthetic oil from 5,000 miles on . Tested last night and could not find an exhaust leak . Very strange sometimes it makes noise , like yesterday ,started in the morning noise after letting it sit for 3 hours went to start and there was the noise again , today started up no noise , let it sit during the day started no noise again . Very strange , either it's a lifter with a sometimes stuck plunger or a very odd exhaust gasket leak .
I will track it down ! Thanks for all the ideas on what to look for and possible solutions .
 
1968dartman said:
That sounds just like mine!
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So it's a Canadian thing ?? Does yours have days where the lifters make no noise ? It's driving me insane , sometimes there is noise for 10-20 seconds , sometimes it gets gradually quieter over 3 or 4 minutes until warm and today no noise . Yesterday it made noise after sitting for 3 hours . very strange .
 
Your description sounds like lifter bleed down to me. My though on it not doing it every day is it's not all the lifters bleeding down and some days the engine stops with a good lifter(s) compressed and it doesn't bleed down so you have no noise that day.

BTW: does that synthetic oil your using have plenty of ZDDP in it? If not it'll trash your cam and lifters. Unless it's Royal Purple or one of the other racing synthetics you need to switch to Valvoline VR1 or an equivalent before it's too late, if it isn't already too late.
 
take lifter out one at a time and pull it apart. Pull little wire clip (carefull they fly if not held by your thumb) with a screwdriver. Remove the seat, plunger, spring and check ball. The check ball and seat are under the little metal cap that can be removed with a pair of pliers. Soak in carb cleaner and clean each piece with a toothbrush, put ball and cap back on and reassemble. Put back in original lifter hole. You can do one in about 10 minutes if you can snake it out of the pushrod holes. you can submerge the lifter in 2 inches of oil in a can and push down with a pushrod. 2-3 pumps and the plunger will no longer compress. If it just keeps pumping, make sure oil passage on side is still open. youll find it.
 
fishy68 said:
Your description sounds like lifter bleed down to me. My though on it not doing it every day is it's not all the lifters bleeding down and some days the engine stops with a good lifter(s) compressed and it doesn't bleed down so you have no noise that day.

BTW: does that synthetic oil your using have plenty of ZDDP in it? If not it'll trash your cam and lifters. Unless it's Royal Purple or one of the other racing synthetics you need to switch to Valvoline VR1 or an equivalent before it's too late, if it isn't already too late.
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I always use a bottle of zddp with every oil change , and change it every 2000 miles , 80% highway driving cruising at 70 - 80 mph , no short trips .
What royal purple oil should I use , and would it need zddp added . The garage I change oil at carries royal purple XPR 10 40 , 20-50 and HPS 10-40 , 20-50 , I use 10-40 weight synthetic oil now .
 
Sounds to me after readin all this that you may need a touch longer pushrods.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Sounds to me after readin all this that you may need a touch longer pushrods.
Click to expand...

Why do you think that ? Not discounting it , but wouldn't that have caused the problem to be present from the start ? Maybe a bent pushrod or 2 ? I will check the pushrods this week , nothing is impossible , thanks for the idea , gives me more to look into . I 'm running the stock 340 rockers , nothing fancy , it's basically a stock build , a bit bigger cam , 10:5 mahle forged pistons and heads lightly ported .
 
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