i must be completely missing something ?!?

[j par]

I must be completely missing something here either that or people's memories are foggy as hell when they're talking about this 30 years ago they ran this or that time? just putting a cam and a torque converter and they're running 11.98 and 12.2's? I'm sure most are well aware of my combination and it's still relatively new and I have a little bit of tuning to do, no doubt, but? My best time so far is 11.88 ? I'll go ahead and restate my combination and maybe someone can tell me why I'm so far off/close to these relatively stock combinations? Or is the simple answer they're full of crap!??

73 duster gutted 2730 lb's without me
410 stroker scat - crank and i beams
icon flat tops with valve relief .010 above deck
ported 596heads 1.88-1.60 new valve guides, new seats, Crower Springs with smith brother pushrods and 273 rockers
284 / 464 purple performance cam was given to Ken at Oregon cam grinding and turned into a custom solid lifter 259/267 @.50 - 546/566 lift (before lash) 107 Ls
dual quad tunnel ram - edelbrock 1406 front and carter afb competition series 9635sa on back (primary)
stock ignition
4 speed (pistol grip )
8 3/4 410 spool traction bars and pinion snubber (ajustable)
28x10.5-15's M/T slicks

shifting at 5800 and going through the traps about the same.
I can see the 1.88 valves holding me up a bit but i'm sure thats not the whole story here?View attachment 20150531_122338.jpg

 

[Abodybomber]

2 questions: 1: is this your first outing? 2: any airflow numbers?. That 1.88 valve is killing you, unless that flows in the 240-250 intake flow zone. You mentioned "four speed " ,& "torque converter"... So you are swapping , to automatic? Gears,out back? We need the digits, to save you frustration and time.

 

[hangn0ut]

Your MPH is good for low 11s. But your 60' is for 13s. Gotta leave harder. 4.88s I think. And a 30lb flywheel.

 

[D-50394]

I would say it is the tunnel ram and the 4 speed. I was running a stock stroke, stock 2000 magnum 360 ,9-1 comp. stock untouched heads , M-1 single plane intake with old 950 holley, .501/.513 hydraulic roller at 2950 lbs and ran a 7.27 @ 95 mph. in the 1/8.
This is a totally stock 2000 360 with a cam and intake.

 

[crackedback]

When you put an 11.20 or better engine in a 13 second chassis, you get what you get.

I must be completely missing something here either that or people's memories are foggy as hell when they're talking about this 30 years ago they ran this or that time? just putting a cam and a torque converter and they're running 11.98 and 12.2's? I'm sure most are well aware of my combination and it's still relatively new and I have a little bit of tuning to do, no doubt, but? My best time so far is 11.88 ? I'll go ahead and restate my combination and maybe someone can tell me why I'm so far off/close to these relatively stock combinations? Or is the simple answer they're full of crap!??

I read this and it is EXACTLY what I expected. A bunch or derogatory insults and put downs towards people that have done a lot in drag racing, some for over 40 years. There are people that can and do with what they have, then there are the one that want to throw untold money at a crappy combo from the get go. Which do you want to be? There is a reason some of us don't respond anymore. If you can't guess what that reason is, I can't help you.

Where did anyone mention relatively stock. That's a figment of your imagination and you are missing a lot. A those 596 heads ported to flow 200cfm going backwards or stable with stock or 240+ with super strong low end numbers... hmmm Your engine makes some steam and the car is VERY weak in the first 330'

Remember making this comment?

initial is not where you are drag racing this car! you need to check your timing at all in like around 2500 to 3000 rpm's and it should be likely between 34 and 36.

Stick with that and you'll get far... SMH!!!

 

[hangn0ut]

That 330' number is way out of whack. That's a 10 flat. Naw,seems my reference is out of whack for 330'.

 

[crackedback]

That 330' number is way out of whack. That's a 10 flat.

Nah, it's soft... at 117 it should look more like this in a solid chassis.

60 Foot 1.57
330 Foot 4.55
660 Foot 7.15
660 MPH 95.12
1000 Foot 9.40
1/4 Mile ET 11.32
1/4 Mile MPH 117

He's .2 off in 60', .4 off at 330 and it keeps getting worse to the 1/8. The interval from 1/8 to 1/4 is pretty decent and he picks up 26mph which is good.

 

[j par]

2 questions: 1: is this your first outing? 2: any airflow numbers?. That 1.88 valve is killing you, unless that flows in the 240-250 intake flow zone. You mentioned "four speed " ,& "torque converter"... So you are swapping , to automatic? Gears,out back? We need the digits, to save you frustration and time.

Many passes on new combo. No flow #'s. Have 4 speed . 410 gears. Not frustrated. Thank you...

 

[j par]

When you put an 11.20 or better engine in a 13 second chassis, you get what you get.



I read this and it is EXACTLY what I expected. A bunch or derogatory insults and put downs towards people that have done a lot in drag racing, some for over 40 years. There are people that can and do with what they have, then there are the one that want to throw untold money at a crappy combo from the get go. Which do you want to be? There is a reason some of us don't respond anymore. If you can't guess what that reason is, I can't help you.

Where did anyone mention relatively stock. That's a figment of your imagination and you are missing a lot. A those 596 heads ported to flow 200cfm going backwards or stable with stock or 240+ with super strong low end numbers... hmmm Your engine makes some steam and the car is VERY weak in the first 330'

Remember making this comment?


Stick with that and you'll get far... SMH!!!

I remember and use it . I didn't put anybody down and please don't put words in my mouth! I called "bull crap"?
"The reason some of us don't respond anymore" THAT is actually the reason - the whole clique thing? If someone challenges your thinking (or your memory of a car you had 30 years ago?)
Throw money at? You've drastically over estimated my wallet ! LOL everything on my car I've took great pride in doing myself some right a lot wrong.
any comments are very appreciated good or otherwise.
most my friends and fellow (mopar drag racers) laugh when I mention this forum, but I defend it and tell of the great information available. If there are people behind the scenes (clique) that don't want to comment on my threads or get there feelers hurt by what i say- I will survive.

 

[AJ/FormS]

How did you come to the 5800 shift rpm?Have you done shift loops?

My combo:Eddie headed, zero deck 366,with a 230* cam,4.30s, and 3450# goes 93 in the 1/8. You can see that I have probably less motor, than you, and handicapped with quite a bit more weight.I shift at up to 7200.I am not smirking.

 

[crackedback]

Good luck...

 

[perfacar]

here is a time slip, no bs here.60'= 1.513. 330' =4.552, 660' =7.151@ 94.33 mph. 1000'= 9.403, 1320= 11.331 @ 116.26, 3345 # , shifted at 6500, 7300 through the traps. 340, single 730 carb, hyd cam, 1.88 int valves, they don't slow it down!! btw , it has 14 # flywheel. mcloed clutch.

 

[j par]

How did you come to the 5800 shift rpm?Have you done shift loops?

My combo:Eddie headed, zero deck 366,with a 230* cam,4.30s, and 3450# goes 93 in the 1/8. You can see that I have probably less motor, than you, and handicapped with quite a bit more weight.I shift at up to 7200.I am not smirking.

i just thought 5800 would be safe . I actually have taken it to 7k before I got (could afford) a shift light tac.
I've never spent 5k plus on a motor (let alone a entire car!) So I'm just trying to play it safe. The machine shop balanced it and all, but you do remember my bad luck ? The half dipstick it just ate?!?

 

[j par]

I would say it is the tunnel ram and the 4 speed. I was running a stock stroke, stock 2000 magnum 360 ,9-1 comp. stock untouched heads , M-1 single plane intake with old 950 holley, .501/.513 hydraulic roller at 2950 lbs and ran a 7.27 @ 95 mph. in the 1/8.
This is a totally stock 2000 360 with a cam and intake.

i agree that tunnel ram probably doesn't help, but the "cool factor"! the 4 speed probably doesn't help, but the "fun factor"! Oddly enough the tunnel ram took a half second off my old 318 et ?

 

[j par]

here is a time slip, no bs here.60'= 1.513. 330' =4.552, 660' =7.151@ 94.33 mph. 1000'= 9.403, 1320= 11.331 @ 116.26, 3345 # , shifted at 6500, 7300 through the traps. 340, single 730 carb, hyd cam, 1.88 int valves, they don't slow it down!! btw , it has 14 # flywheel. mcloed clutch.

see I know it's got a lot more? Evert time i get just a little bit better 60ft things personified down the track. I just took out the 8 1/4 - 355 track lock and put in a 8 3/4 - 410 spool. which made it possible to take off the 26/10.5 street et's and put on the 28/10.5 slicks which had a much wider tired and I felt that!! $1,000 and that wasn't easy to come by. I had to put together piece by piece I really wish I had money just to throw at it! Lol

 

[AJ/FormS]

Get the jet close.
Run timing loops. Then shift loops.Then tire pressures. Repeat.
Increase coolant temps, rerun loops.

I think you're short-shifting, and need more gear. The gear can wait. Concentrate on the mph for now. Get that to peak, and be consistant.
Chasing ETs will break the bank, lead to divorce,long stays in the mental ward, etc.

At 93mph in the 1/8, I know my street combo is strong. I dont care how long it takes to get to the end of the track. Actually, I make myself not care. For me,its enough to see the potential. I got better places to spend thousands of dollars

Its been printed to expect 1 to 1.5 seconds ET loss to street suspension. Most of that is right on the starting line, and in the first 3 to 5 seconds. With fairly modest suspension upgrades, a half second or a little more can be recaptured.After that it gets expensive.At 117mph your combo is cooking pretty good.

 

[j par]

Get the jet close.
Run timing loops. Then shift loops.Then tire pressures. Repeat.
Increase coolant temps, rerun loops.

I've been working on the free stuff - tire pressure, shift loops. Lately I've been wanting to play with the jets. I installed a wide band o2 sensor ( dual carburetors- I knew I'd need something). Now it's reading 12.1 or so at idle and 11.3 or so at open throttle ?? I think it should be little less rich, but the plugs look good ? No smoke. I've ran out of big money to throw at the suspension. On top of $100 to $150 every time I take it out, (witch I'm ok with) it's the $200 in parts I seem to have to spend when I get back#-o - last week the dipstick this week the water pump :banghead:
Really I'm very happy with the car! It's met or exceeded my expectations. The first time out last year (with the 318 ) starting of in third gear LOL 18.2 - and 15.4 by the end of the night. 13.72 by the end of the year. So my hopes for the new motor was 12.7 and did it first time out. Then my end of summer hopes was to an 11.99, nailed it second time out. Now I'm trying to chase down the tenths to keep it interesting.
I'm seeing where I've went so wrong - I need to throw 5-8k at the suspension? LOL
OOOORRRRR $700 on a dual quad nitrous kit ? ??? I'll probably only have money to chase tenths.
[/QUOTE]Chasing ETs will break the bank, lead to divorce,long stays in the mental ward, etc..[/QUOTE]
ET's have broken the bank! Divorce? Getting married in August- also breaking the bank!! Mental ward? Seriously ? ! I still believe one day I'll come back from the track with nothing to work on !! See I'm already MENTAL!irate::happy6::happy6::happy6::happy6::happy6::tongue10::tongue10::tard::tongue9::toothy10::shock::happy3::tongue::hello2::hello2::hello2:

 

[Cudafever]

I need to throw 5-8k at the suspension?

No, you need too tune the suspension you have!
OOOORRRRR $700 on a dual quad nitrous kit ?
NO, motor has more power then then chassis, and the chassis, let you down again!

I'm not the best one to teach you that. as for 1, i haven't made enough HP to over ride stock suspension W/ 20 plus years on my old SS Spring.

I have bought a book on chassis tuning and modifying. Even though i haven't got a full grasp of the Math, i'm learning. In the book it talks about Racers, in general, and how few know how to set up a chassis, street...street/strip or full on tube chassis. He asks a question. "How many Engine book are out there............How many transmission books........ and how many CHASSIS Books"!!!!! Most build a eng, for a set ET(my self included) and never get the full potential, because the car is a full package and the eng is only part of it.

Ok, now with that said, here is an amateur opinion. fuel is fine, for now. Not to lean to burn a piston and not to rich to cause a plug to miss fire.

First, Clamp the **** out of the front segment........ok ok when i say clamp it i don't mean the clamps that are holding the leafs together. A clamp made from a strap of steel with two hold drilled in it. Bolts and lock nuts go on either side of leaf/s causing a sandwich to the leafs.
If you have two leafs below the main leaf, in front of the axle, clamp them both.
Stick shift cars are extremely hard on any chassis, take a real good look at the front segment. If there is ANY SIGN! That the main leaf is flat or bending in the opposite direction, Clamp it there as well!
They can be made out of mild steel but need to be 1/4" thick X 1-5/8" X 4-3/8". bolt hole spacing aprox 3-1/8". 1/2 fine thread bolts,2-1/2" long. (grade 5 is good enough). This is spec i got off of a old MMP clamp, that i will us to build new one for my car! After i get a few other thing done on my car.

STARTING LINE TECHNIQUE​

With a stick you have a line lock right?
How high of a rpm can you leave the line with out smoking the clutch or smoking the tires.( i say smoke the tires because a little tire slip off the line may be beneficial. I'm taking about clutch or tires.(tires are easier to replace) 60' times will answer your questions.
I just re read you first post.......If you are going to keep the "traction bars" make sure they land on the spring eye! if not your leaf is bent already. make sure you traction bar is touching the eye.(race only) Traction bar has to be constructed to withstand the abuse with out flexing or bending​

And for the record my 60' suck because i have a auto instead of a stick and my torque converter stalls around 3000 and i need something in the 4500 stall area( big $$$$) so i do the little thing while i save.

Hope i haven't put you to sleep. THE END!......:burnout:

 

[JBurch]

What you are missing is a chassis that works...........why traction bars AND a pinion snubber? With the bars set correctly the snubber will never come into play and vice verse. One of them is just dead weight. What are your shocks? Are they adjustable? Do you have a good vid of your car launching at the track?

You are also missing a good set of heads..........a cam with 267deg@.050 isn't gonna be able to truly deliver what it's capable of thru a 1.88 valve unless you really spin it.

Worried about breaking sh**; we all are, welcome to the club!

 

[Cudafever]

What you are missing is a chassis that works...........why traction bars AND a pinion snubber? With the bars set correctly the snubber will never come into play and vice verse. One of them is just dead weight. What are your shocks? Are they adjustable? Do you have a good vid of your car launching at the track?

You are also missing a good set of heads..........a cam with 267deg@.050 isn't gonna be able to truly deliver what it's capable of thru a 1.88 valve unless you really spin it.

Worried about breaking sh**; we all are, welcome to the club!

LOL, always chasing the next weak link.ops:

 

[moper]

Good luck...

x2. I think you are in just the right place with this car. You have made mistakes, and still have some I can see, but you'll figure them out over time which seems to be the way you prefer to learn. It's all good.

BTW - some of us laugh at the stuff in other Mopar race foums... It's my opinion you're in no position to tell who knows what on any forum. As for me, I find this site the least "clique-ish" I've had the pleasure to be involved with. Which is why I'm here more than anywhere else. I look forward to seeing you improve.

 

[D-50394]

Yes I have done that since day one. I am always finding something that needs upgraded. Just always hope it is the last time for that part. The faster you go the more stuff breaks.
When I first started racing my Demon I kept upgrading parts and ended up with almost enough parts to Build my 69 Valiant.

 

[j par]

I need to throw 5-8k at the suspension?

No, you need too tune the suspension you have!
OOOORRRRR $700 on a dual quad nitrous kit ?
NO, motor has more power then then chassis, and the chassis, let you down again!

I'm not the best one to teach you that. as for 1, i haven't made enough HP to over ride stock suspension W/ 20 plus years on my old SS Spring.

I have bought a book on chassis tuning and modifying. Even though i haven't got a full grasp of the Math, i'm learning. In the book it talks about Racers, in general, and how few know how to set up a chassis, street...street/strip or full on tube chassis. He asks a question. "How many Engine book are out there............How many transmission books........ and how many CHASSIS Books"!!!!! Most build a eng, for a set ET(my self included) and never get the full potential, because the car is a full package and the eng is only part of it.

Ok, now with that said, here is an amateur opinion. fuel is fine, for now. Not to lean to burn a piston and not to rich to cause a plug to miss fire.

First, Clamp the **** out of the front segment........ok ok when i say clamp it i don't mean the clamps that are holding the leafs together. A clamp made from a strap of steel with two hold drilled in it. Bolts and lock nuts go on either side of leaf/s causing a sandwich to the leafs.
If you have two leafs below the main leaf, in front of the axle, clamp them both.
Stick shift cars are extremely hard on any chassis, take a real good look at the front segment. If there is ANY SIGN! That the main leaf is flat or bending in the opposite direction, Clamp it there as well!
They can be made out of mild steel but need to be 1/4" thick X 1-5/8" X 4-3/8". bolt hole spacing aprox 3-1/8". 1/2 fine thread bolts,2-1/2" long. (grade 5 is good enough). This is spec i got off of a old MMP clamp, that i will us to build new one for my car! After i get a few other thing done on my car.

STARTING LINE TECHNIQUE​

With a stick you have a line lock right?
How high of a rpm can you leave the line with out smoking the clutch or smoking the tires.( i say smoke the tires because a little tire slip off the line may be beneficial. I'm taking about clutch or tires.(tires are easier to replace) 60' times will answer your questions.
I just re read you first post.......If you are going to keep the "traction bars" make sure they land on the spring eye! if not your leaf is bent already. make sure you traction bar is touching the eye.(race only) Traction bar has to be constructed to withstand the abuse with out flexing or bending​

And for the record my 60' suck because i have a auto instead of a stick and my torque converter stalls around 3000 and i need something in the 4500 stall area( big $$$$) so i do the little thing while i save.

Hope i haven't put you to sleep. THE END!......:burnout:

now thats some good stuff i can bight into ! Thank you . ..

 

[j par]

What you are missing is a chassis that works...........why traction bars AND a pinion snubber? With the bars set correctly the snubber will never come into play and vice verse. One of them is just dead weight. What are your shocks? Are they adjustable? Do you have a good vid of your car launching at the track?

You are also missing a good set of heads..........a cam with 267deg@.050 isn't gonna be able to truly deliver what it's capable of thru a 1.88 valve unless you really spin it.

Worried about breaking sh**; we all are, welcome to the club!

the car came with the traction bars so I use them. I noticed they were bending when I changed to the eight and three quarter. I was able to slap the pinion snubber on just before the last race and adjusted it within a quarter inch and it seemed to work better. just haven't had time to get the traction bars off yet. And yeah I don't mind being part of the breaking s*** club it's just the fixing s*** club and paying for the broken s*** club but I'm still trying to get used to! lolView attachment 20141124_175614.jpg

View attachment 20150523_180917.jpg

 

[j par]

x2. I think you are in just the right place with this car. You have made mistakes, and still have some I can see, but you'll figure them out over time which seems to be the way you prefer to learn. It's all good.

BTW - some of us laugh at the stuff in other Mopar race foums... It's my opinion you're in no position to tell who knows what on any forum. As for me, I find this site the least "clique-ish" I've had the pleasure to be involved with. Which is why I'm here more than anywhere else. I look forward to seeing you improve.

I think the only way in my life I've ever learned anything is the hard way! Lol
I don't even "knows what"!! Lol