I need some help with an old Dodge truck.

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  1. Cope

    Cope Fusing with fire FABO Gold Member

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    Hey folks!

    I got tasked with bringing a old Dodge Brothers truck back to life! Im not sure what year it is but the manual says 1941-47 and seems to be the right manual.

    The door tag is in place (two of them in fact). Of course I forgot to take a pic of the door tag but I can get it later if needed/wanted.

    I believe it was last used as an old logging truck. It looks to be fitted out as a "skidder" but Im not o e hundred percent on that.

    Right away before i even pulled up and unrapped it, I wanted it. I could see this huge tarp cover mountain and thought, thats gotta be it. Then as I unrap it, I was blown away. This thing is MINT! No rustand its ALL there. The pics dont do it justice. It is crazy cool. I have no reason or use for it but dang I like it!


    The plan is to keep it "orignal" and just make it reliable and safe.
    So new wire, new lines , you know all the basics.

    Today i pulled the plugs out of the flat head straight 6 and dam if they dont look fine, like it was running yesterday fine. (No joke)

    Put a chock under the wheels and pop the trans into neutral. Shifts good.

    The owner left a new 6 volt battery and a box of misiculanious parts out for me.

    Battery tests at 10.3 volts, cool not dead.

    I start poking around and notice the starter is missing. DANG!! but the hand crank is not...... hummmm....

    Put some marvel mystery oil down the holes and poke around. Turns over nice by hand. Wow! No Fing way Im trying to start this with the hand crank tho. Number one reason, I just got out of the hospital and Number two I dont wanna go back so hand crank is out.

    :)


    Wow F me. There is a fresh rebuilt 6 volt starter IN THE BOX..

    Bench test starter it turns but not like im used to with 12 volt systems. Its weak and slow. Bolt in starter and hit it. Maybe 30 RPM. not good. Not enough to kick. (I dont think?)

    Questions

    1. Is slow cranking something inherent to 6V systems?

    2. What is the static voltage of a 6v system?
    Running voltage?

    3. What is required to make it a 12V system? New wiring. New alt, new coil and new starter?

    I cant see any reason to keep it 6 volt. Am I missing something? Any reason to stay with the 6V system?


    Im sure I will have lots more questions as this progresses. Thank you all for your time and advice and now the fun part. Pics.


    20211123_104005.jpg

    20211123_104006.jpg


    20211123_104020.jpg


    Shoot I swear I took more pictures than that? Huh. Oh well. I will take more if people are into it.

    This thing is a tank. The hard line for the rear brakes is 1/4" and i doubt it has a nut or bolt under 5/8" anywhere on it...


    Thanks again!
     
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    • moparker

      moparker Well-Known Member

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      Im in. Love it.
       
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      • TT5.9mag

        TT5.9mag Two atmospheres are better than one

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        Yup it’s bad ass. More pics. Switching from 6 to 12 volts you’ll have to do all the light bulbs as well as all of the common things. Wiring, starter, battery (duh), points. Some old guys I’ve talked to like the 6 volt stuff but I think it’s nostalgic more than anything else.
         
      • cudajames

        cudajames FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        I know that truck-it has been in the drive way for years. A couple houses down there was a 72 charger I was talking to the owner about.

        nice score
         
      • Cope

        Cope Fusing with fire FABO Gold Member

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        So I called "Hot Rod Wires" in Texas. WOW!

        I found the vendor for all my 6 to 12v parts. They are open 8am-10PM CST, 7 days a week and the man I spoke to (Bill) he knows his stuff.

        Looks like it will end up 12V but that is still up to the owner.

        @cudajames
        Crap James. I told the guy I wouldn't post its location.. Thanks buddy.
        :poke::drama:

        Its a customers but I sure would own it. Long time no see bud, stop by the shop so.e time and say hi to JC!
         
      • diymirage

        diymirage HP@idle > hondaHP@redline

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        Has the owner mentioned an LS swap yet?

        tenor-3.gif
         
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        • 67Dart273

          67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          6V systems DO crank slow. They are all low compression, so start easier

          For voltage, just dived everything in half. A fully charged 12V is about 12.6, so 6.3V

          12V "running" are an nominal 13.8--14.2 so 6v...........about 7V

          For conversion...........

          Most electric motors (back then) do not care about polarity. NEWER permanet magnet field motors (like mini-starters) DO car about polarity. So if you have the original heater and wipers just use a dropping resistor. You must size them as to DRAW, so hook them up to a hot 6V battery --or power supply--and measure operational current draw

          Gauges need a special drop for each gauge. I cannot remember the name there is/ were little modules you could buy for each one

          If you reverse polarity, reverse the wires on the ammeter

          Use a 12V coil or a Mopar style coil+ matching ballast combo

          Usually you can "get away" with the 6V starter and even the 6V solenoid if used, but many of those old girls had 12V starters available, and I would check into that. You also "might" find a by Gawd honest to real old school local rebuilder who can turn a 6V one into 12 (rewind it)

          Edit gauge drop search might get you started........

          6 to 12v gauge instrument drop - Google Search
           
          Last edited: Nov 23, 2021
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          • Cope

            Cope Fusing with fire FABO Gold Member

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            Bob at Hot Rod Wires says I need a new 12V condenser. It looks like I can just use one out of the old 1971 Dart parts?

            Can I just use a standard 1970s points condensor?

            He also mentioned I need ignition balest resistor.

            If we are rewiring this entire truck AND changing the voltage why do we need that stupid resistor?

            What dose that thing do again? (All our cars run MSD units now.)

            Thanks again for your advice.
             
          • Cope

            Cope Fusing with fire FABO Gold Member

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            No but a Cummins 12 valve and four wheel drive have come up.

            :thumbsup:
             
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            • 67Dart273

              67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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              And oh yeh...................we need to see some darn PHOTOS!!! LOLOL
               
            • 67Dart273

              67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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              He is full of beans. There is no such thing as a "12V condenser" as applied to a distributor. all condensers (capacitors) have a maximum working voltage rating, so the thought might have been "on the right track." But a distributor conenser sees a big hi voltage pulse, and whatever fits the original distributor will work fine

              The coil ballast is going to depend on what coil you use. Do NOT use a 6V coil. Use either a 12V coil, that is, one designed to run straight off 12V, or better yet use one off a 12V Mopar and matching ballast. THERE IS GOOD REASON to use a ballasted setup. The balllast helps regulate coil power, and it allows you to wire up a bypass circuit like all 12V cars used "with points." What this does, is to give you a straight battery shot at the coil when cranking, and therefore gives you a hotter spark when cranking.

              I can help you with that later on, there's a couple ways to do so. Basically, Mopar 12V era ignition switch, or a relay, or a great big diode. Depending on how the starter is set up you might be able to use a 60-70's fender mount solenoid. Some of those old girls would have had a foot operated starter---mechanical, no solenoid
               
              Last edited: Nov 23, 2021
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              • 67Dart273

                67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                I was gonna PM you, cope but your inbox is full
                 
              • diymirage

                diymirage HP@idle > hondaHP@redline

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                That and a 4 inch lift, would make it a real powerwagon
                 
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                • 67Dart273

                  67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                  Here is just one example of how goofy things can get. This is off a Delco, and likely off a 55 or so Chev pu. It was a mechanical foot operated bendix linkage, and the switch made contact with a button on top of the starter

                  WHAT YOU ASK is the small stud / nut terminal? Late 55 GMC/ Chev pu were 12V and the stud was the coil resistor bypass terminal!!

                  Delco12V.jpg
                   
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                  • Tooljunkie

                    Tooljunkie King of cobble/master of the broken bolt FABO Gold Member

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                    I have a 51. Converted to 12 volts neg ground.
                    Oil pressure is mechanical. Ammeter works as is. Temp is mechanical.fuel gauge will be an issue, i used a ivr from a 70’s truck. As well as the fuel tank.
                    I scratch wired the whole truck in about 3 days including adding signals. Starter works very well on 12 volts, use a condenser from a 6 cyl 12 volt vehicle. halifaxhops has tune up parts, needs distributor number.
                    And a 1 circuit/2 terminal ballast resistor. No bypass, it will start without.

                    i used a typical 70’s dodge alternator and regulator,easy to build modify brackets.

                    thenni ripped the flathead out and dropped in a 360/727.
                     
                  • Tooljunkie

                    Tooljunkie King of cobble/master of the broken bolt FABO Gold Member

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                    As far as the flattie goes, block will be full of scale/dirt/rust.
                    The core plugs are not real easy to find, brass are better. Behind water pump is a water distribution tube, you need to make sure its intact. I got my water pump from rock auto

                    p15-d24.com is a wealth of information.
                    I used vicsdodgegarage.com for parts. One man band, good to deal with.
                     
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                    • Cope

                      Cope Fusing with fire FABO Gold Member

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                      Thanks 67!

                      I will hook up a 12 coil, jump 12V to the starter and see if I get spark.


                      I just got off the phone with the owner.

                      The build is a go. Its a limited budget but I think we can really make something out of this.

                      The owner wants a stake side flat bed and I normaly really like those but I think this needs more. What is more? I have no Idea. Maybe something like our 04 Ram, not sure yet.
                      Any ideas for the bed are welcome.
                      (I kinda want to fix the skid loader bed. Its totally Fing useless for anything but hauling logs but is is correct to the truck.)
                       
                    • 33IMP

                      33IMP Well-Known Member

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                      Ramp truck, for a forties Mopar gasser.
                       
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                      • Tooljunkie

                        Tooljunkie King of cobble/master of the broken bolt FABO Gold Member

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                        Think that old girl is good for about 50 mph too. The fuel pump will likely need a rebuild.as soon as the ethenol hits it, it will fail. As farcas a suggestion for a flat deck, may be some ideas on the forum i posted earlier. There is a thread.
                         
                      • shittyslant6

                        shittyslant6 Well-Known Member

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                        When you do brakes, I recommend coming up the hill to the mojave desert.
                        https://www.yelp.com/biz/the-brake-shop-hesperia
                        This guy has an entire warehouse FILLED to the brim with N.O.S. brake stuff.
                        he had NOS front drums for my duster still in the box from the factory.
                        the shelves are about 20 inches apart, 7 feet tall, and there are hundreds of them.
                        been open since 72 and I bet half of his stock is from then.
                        highly recommend; its worth the trip
                         
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                        • j par

                          j par Well-hung Member

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                          Screenshot_20211123-183936.png Screenshot_20211123-184012.png
                          This is a customers truck I think it's a 46..
                          It's a rare four-wheel drive...
                          Anyways he got it about 18 years ago and just after he got it he got an engine for it that he said he trickled a little gas and and heard it fire and run...
                          He had the brakes rebuilt at the axles but that was it. I showed him how to route the brake lines and told him to get a new master cylinder as his old one was very toast. It's 6 volt reverse polarity positive ground. And yes every one of these kind of worked on crank kind of slow... The battery reads 6.25... and they don't die easy... After he swore nobody ever touched the wires I finally figured out that all the wires were completely crossed..
                          I got it firing and running and got his brakes working for him..
                          The pictures depict the day we finally drove it for the first time since he owned it in near 20 years and actually got it running months before that...
                           
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                          • Cope

                            Cope Fusing with fire FABO Gold Member

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                            @j par

                            Wow! Thanks buddy.

                            Looks like yours was a logging truck as well?

                            The one i am working on has a small gear driven PTO right behind the passenger side of the cab. It looks to me like a skidder because of the hump in the frame.and the PTO but as we un wrap it we will learn more.
                             
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                            • Bobacuda

                              Bobacuda Well-Known Member

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                              Don’t forget the original 6 volt system is positive ground. Keep the 6 V starter - 12 V will spin it and makes starting easier. I saw a kit online to convert the 6 V generator to 12 V.

                              There are folks using Jeep Cherokee master cylinders.
                              This conversion would best be done while the front end sheet metal is off.

                              You can wire it for 6 V (wire gauges) those wires can handle 12 V. If you wire it with 12 V wires, they will be too small for 6 V.

                              I put a Petronix ignition in my truck to eliminate points. I had no trouble finding brass freeze plugs (Dorman), but the big PITA is replacing the water distribution tube behind water pump.

                              You need to measure the head length, because there are 23” and 25” varieties.

                              A couple of other good sources of parts is Vintage Power Wagons and Dodge Central of Michigan.
                               
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                              • Cope

                                Cope Fusing with fire FABO Gold Member

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                                Thank you all.
                                This is a lets drive it for a parade, christmas thing. I cant wait to see what it becomes tho.

                                Everyone with experence in these old trucks is a blessing.

                                The starter is wired as a key but the push button is in the truck floor as well.
                                 
                              • j par

                                j par Well-hung Member

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                                It was bought in Northern Washington..
                                There's definitely signs of it being a military truck used in Alaska or on its way there... On the passenger side firewall there's a massive brass canister that circulates hot water from the engine that surrounds a coil that runs fuel through it. More or less to warm the fuel... I had him bypass it so it's not to have anything get mixed up by accident but definitely told him to polish it up and leave it there.. in our climate here it's not needed but is nice to have for A conversation piece...
                                 
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