I need some hook

-
Toluene56

Toluene56

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
1,114
Reaction score
1,203
Location
reno
Just can't get this thing to hook well. With the previous combo and 3.55's it was no big deal, 12.4's at altitude was pretty damn consistent.
This years best run so far:Base elevation 4,000ft - DA during run 7859ft
60ft - 1.599 330ft - 4.74 1/8 - 7.423@91.36 1000 - 9.753 1/4 - 11.725 @ 114.15
All my runs I basically have to hit about half throttle and roll into it. Or the thing basically insta spins. The best run the track was still decent before the street tire cars chewed it up, I was able to 3/4(ish) throttle launch, but in the video you can see the car nose real fast. Not sure what caused that, very well could have been me, but it was also the best 60ft this car has done yet.

Specs:
408
Dynamic converter 4500ish stall
904 MVB
4.30 gears
255/60/15 MT ET Street R's (25psi all runs)
Cal trac mono leafs w/ bars set in top hole w/ 1 flat of preload (so far this seems to work the best)
Rear shocks are Rancho 9000's set at 7 (cheap and semi adjustable, worked WAY better than the old CE 3 ways)
Front shocks CE 3 ways set at 90/10
QA1 upper and lower control arms
stock 318 torsion bars
Here is the best launch (1500rpm 3/4 throttle

Here is the full throttle launch (loaded converter 2500) Don't mind the ET, it spun and I hit the limiter in both shifts.


I can see 2 obvious things that I could change. 1. try a real slick 2. better shocks (too pricey for me at the moment)
What do you guys think? Anything you would try before swapping to a 28x9 slick? Or dumping a buttload of cash into fully adjustable shocks?
 
On the second run it looks like it unloads the rear when the front end tops out. Might try tightening the front shocks. Also 25 psi seems a bit high for tire pressure, even for radials. Try as low an RPM off the start line that will still allow you to cut decent lights.
 
skrews said:
On the second run it looks like it unloads the rear when the front end tops out. Might try tightening the front shocks. Also 25 psi seems a bit high for tire pressure, even for radials. Try as low an RPM off the start line that will still allow you to cut decent lights.
Click to expand...
I was trying to keep the shock, tire, cal trac bar settings the same for these few runs to see if I could get it to hook. Just happened to get teh best 60ft w/ the 25psi. My plan was to set tires down to 22psi and leave shock and cal trac alone try the same off idle launch (lost the alt belt and ended the night). After watching the second video even the first video, I was wondering if I set the front shocks to the 70/30 setting if it would help slow down the front.
 
Toluene56 said:
I was trying to keep the shock, tire, cal trac bar settings the same for these few runs to see if I could get it to hook. Just happened to get teh best 60ft w/ the 25psi. My plan was to set tires down to 22psi and leave shock and cal trac alone try the same off idle launch (lost the alt belt and ended the night). After watching the second video even the first video, I was wondering if I set the front shocks to the 70/30 setting if it would help slow down the front.
Click to expand...

This is my thought as well. I also think the 1500 RPM launch helps by not loading the rear suspension at the start line, thus keeping the car on the rear tire longer through the launch.
 
skrews said:
This is my thought as well. I also think the 1500 RPM launch helps by not loading the rear suspension at the start line, thus keeping the car on the rear tire longer through the launch.
Click to expand...
I noticed that on a couple of the launches where I let it load up on the suspension 2500+ rpm launch, every run I had to pedal. I'll have to add it to the list, Try runs off idle and loaded suspension just to see the difference.
 
My guess you are hitting the rear springs too hard with the upper hole. Put the bars in lower holes and slightly preload them. There was a tuning thread for cal tracks somewhere around here. Has some baseline stuff in it.One side het just touching or 1 flat of preload, the other put a dime on top of spring and have a slight air gap.

The front end is fine from what I see. I does extend quickly and that could be a function of your rear set up killing the spring. Slow down the back and see if the front settles down as well. Setting shocks on 70/30 could help too.

Agree with skrews, too much air pressure. Drop it to 20-22 and see if it helps with a softer hit on your springs.
 
Last edited:
^^^ Agree. Bars in the lower hole will hit softer.

Also check that your rear shocks are not topping out with the rear suspension hanging. They should have at least an inch of travel left with the car supported by the frame.
 
skrews said:
^^^ Agree. Bars in the lower hole will hit softer.

Also check that your rear shocks are not topping out with the rear suspension hanging. They should have at least an inch of travel left with the car supported by the frame.
Click to expand...
they are definitely not topping out. First thing I checked when I got the 9000's. I have also read a bunch of cal trac tuning threads on multiple forums. Which is why I started with the upper hole being as the consensus is upper hole to start with for radials, lower hole for bias ply slicks, But hell yeah, i'll slap 'em in the lower hole and see if it makes a difference. The preload it seems to be all over the place for different cars. So I figured I'd pick the one flat preload and try from there. My track is only open about once a month, so I may not get this thing sorted till even next year. Unless I make the trek to sea level, I'm sure that will entail everything changing again.
 
What I have found is that anything that causes the suspension to top out hard will unload the car thus knocking it off the tire. This problem is worse with radials from what I've seen.
 
Toluene56 said:
What do you guys think? Anything you would try before swapping to a 28x9 slick? Or dumping a buttload of cash into fully adjustable shocks?
Click to expand...
I'd set the air pressure to 15, see if you can do a solo run (or stage last) do a little bit longer burnout, stage and go asap.
 
[QUOTE="crackedback, post: 1972580507, member: 1391"]My guess you are hitting the rear springs too hard with the upper hole. Put the bars in lower holes and slightly preload them. There was a tuning thread for cal tracks somewhere around here. Has some baseline stuff in it.One side het just touching or 1 flat of preload, the other put a dime on top of spring and have a slight air gap.

The front end is fine from what I see. I does extend quickly and that could be a function of your rear set up killing the spring. Slow down the back and see if the front settles down as well. Setting shocks on 70/30 could help too.

Agree with skrews, too much air pressure. Drop it to 20-22 and see if it helps with a softer hit on your springs.[/QUOTE]

^^This^^ When my Dart had the 340 in it I tried the top hole with the Cal-Tracs and the car would porpoise. At times it would lift the front end then unload the tires. Moving the bar to the bottom hole cured that problem.

My car still has the factory 273/318 torsion bars in it so race bars aren't necessary to make it work. Also the most pressure I've ever ran in any drag radial is 19 psi.
 
Agree with Justin. Most guys i know run 17-19 pounds in a radial
I run 18. 25 is way too much. You frankly dont have much tire on that car, and it being a radial is going to make it harder to get it to work to begin with.
Track prep as well becomes more of an issue than with a bias tire.
Also, DONT do a big burnout with a radial. Its counterproductive. Just get a quick haze and get out of the water box.
 
B3422w5 said:
Agree with Justin. Most guys i know run 17-19 pounds in a radial
I run 18. 25 is way too much. You frankly dont have much tire on that car, and it being a radial is going to make it harder to get it to work to begin with.
Track prep as well becomes more of an issue than with a bias tire.
Also, DONT do a big burnout with a radial. Its counterproductive. Just get a quick haze and get out of the water box.
Click to expand...
I've tried the haze the tires approach, spun as if it was on ice. To be honest, the track prep up here is usually not that great. But the last couple of months they've really stepped up their game. Partially why I left the tires at 25psi to see how it would react. Usually I'm 18-22psi at least with the old combo and SS springs. One of the regulars was kind enough to throw me a set of 28x9 hoosiers since he swapped to a different tire, not sure if they'll fit. It looks to be pretty tight.

I really don't want to mini tub the car, I don't mind relocating the springs a touch. But I like having the small tire on it. Kinda throws people off. If I can get it sorted to hook and book then it will surprise even more.
 
Radials do not like a hard initial hit from my experience. Right now you have to pump them up to keep from crushing the sidewall. It's a chicken/egg or drifting down the rabbit hole problem right now.

JMO, it's the aggressive bar setting at the root of your issue. Settle that down, you can run less pressure. Slightly less pressure, better footprint. I'd run 20# and see how it does. Keep in mind that guys that run a 275/60 can run less air than a 255/60 or a 235/60 tire can on the same car/wt. I've had 275/60 A body cars run best with 22#, so it's car dependent. The car will tell you where it wants pressure, find the best 60' time at the highest pressure.

Make sure any adjustments/settings you make to the bars are with drivers weight in the seat. IIRC, CalTrack says 1/2 turn preload on both side. Others like one side with either touching or a flat or two preload and the other side with just touching or small air gap. Same deal, the car will tell you what it likes.

If car goes left, add preload to left spring or pull out from right side.

Agree on small burnout. Another rabbit hole deal. It's not hooking, tires aren't hot enough. Radials prefer a short quick hit for burnout, just a rough haze is usually good enough. Any more and they get greasy.

Slicks will not likely fix your issue. It will change the dynamics of your problem.
 
Last edited:
You need a double adjustable shock. On both ends. What you have is confusing at best. I had John Calvert try and explain to me how to tune with that shock, and we both ended up pissed off.

The fact is, if you can't seperate bump and rebound dampening, you can't tune with that shock.
 
just a goofy story but, when i was 16 and got my first truck(60 ford F100 pick-up with a 292 V-8) Thought i have one the battle because they only wanted me in a 6 syl for my first vehicle.
It had 205/75/15 with snow tires all the way around. that 292 V8 was so gutless that even flooring it and dumping the clutch would not make the tires spin. so i would back up as fast as i could, throw it into 2nt and it would spin all most, forward, as far as i had back up before it grabbed. After i had done it many, times the rubber got soft enough that i could put it in 3d dump the clutch and smoke them all the way out of the high school parking lot.

The moral of the story? if you get them too hot, they may not ever hook again.:steering:
Just being silly for the most part.:D
 
Cudafever said:
just a goofy story but, when i was 16 and got my first truck(60 ford F100 pick-up with a 292 V-8) Thought i have one the battle because they only wanted me in a 6 syl for my first vehicle.
It had 205/75/15 with snow tires all the way around. that 292 V8 was so gutless that even flooring it and dumping the clutch would not make the tires spin. so i would back up as fast as i could, throw it into 2nt and it would spin all most, forward, as far as i had back up before it grabbed. After i had done it many, times the rubber got soft enough that i could put it in 3d dump the clutch and smoke them all the way out of the high school parking lot.

The moral of the story? if you get them too hot, they may not ever hook again.:steering:
Just being silly for the most part.:D
Click to expand...

LOL , I did the back up thing one time , on a pretty steep hill in a friends dads pick up, friend did it all the time --
hold my beer and watch this----2 piece drive shaft came un glued , left truck sitting on the bottom of the hill.
NO ONE GOT IN TROUBLE EITHER we were 16 at the time .
 
Toluene56 said:
Just can't get this thing to hook well. With the previous combo and 3.55's it was no big deal, 12.4's at altitude was pretty damn consistent.
This years best run so far:Base elevation 4,000ft - DA during run 7859ft
60ft - 1.599 330ft - 4.74 1/8 - 7.423@91.36 1000 - 9.753 1/4 - 11.725 @ 114.15
All my runs I basically have to hit about half throttle and roll into it. Or the thing basically insta spins. The best run the track was still decent before the street tire cars chewed it up, I was able to 3/4(ish) throttle launch, but in the video you can see the car nose real fast. Not sure what caused that, very well could have been me, but it was also the best 60ft this car has done yet.

Specs:
408
Dynamic converter 4500ish stall
904 MVB
4.30 gears
255/60/15 MT ET Street R's (25psi all runs)
Cal trac mono leafs w/ bars set in top hole w/ 1 flat of preload (so far this seems to work the best)
Rear shocks are Rancho 9000's set at 7 (cheap and semi adjustable, worked WAY better than the old CE 3 ways)
Front shocks CE 3 ways set at 90/10
QA1 upper and lower control arms
stock 318 torsion bars
Here is the best launch (1500rpm 3/4 throttle

Here is the full throttle launch (loaded converter 2500) Don't mind the ET, it spun and I hit the limiter in both shifts.


I can see 2 obvious things that I could change. 1. try a real slick 2. better shocks (too pricey for me at the moment)
What do you guys think? Anything you would try before swapping to a 28x9 slick? Or dumping a buttload of cash into fully adjustable shocks?
Click to expand...


Didn`t watch the videos , speakers quit working/ takes the fun out of it !

WHEN U FIND THAT HOOK, send me a case of it !!
 
14x32 slick and the car will twist like a cork screw. you want hook, I call it a dead hook. lol
 
If you do some tuning with what you have it will hook on a decent track. I ran 7.24 with 1.52 60' with the 340 and a 275 radial. The 408 went 6.57 with 1.38 60' a bunch of times with 325 radials.

All this was done with rancho 9 way rear shocks and ce three ways on the front. At the time the car had 5 1/2" of travel in the front.

I have since replaced the shocks with Viking double adjustables.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top