I'm Torn

Discussion in 'Small Block Mopar Engine' started by SharpDart71, May 7, 2018.

  1. SharpDart71

    SharpDart71 Well-Known Member

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    So many options out there for engines....

    I have an original-to-car 318 in my 71 Swinger, so I'm weighing all small block options at this point. Either keep the 318 and send it to a performance machine shop; find a 360, or find a 340. I'm in the works with a guy and a 340, but i'm torn between that, or rebuilding the car's 318.

    Would rebuilding the orginal 318 keep more value to the car?

    Ready, set, go for opinions.
     
  2. T56MaxTorq

    T56MaxTorq Well-Known Member

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    It really all reduces down to how much money you’re willing to spend on a goal.
     
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    • Mr Gorsky

      Mr Gorsky I know words, I have the best words...

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      Numbers matching does not apply to a 318.

      Yes, there are a few die hards out there (four) who do care if the 318 in the car matches the VIN....but good luck finding one of those four when you come to selling the car.

      That said, keep the 318 and sell me that now-useless-to-you 340.
       
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      • toolmanmike

        toolmanmike FABO Staff Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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        X2 Pull the teen and sit it in the corner. Build that 340 and rock and roll. If/ when you sell the car you still have the original engine if the new buyer wants it.
         
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        • SharpDart71

          SharpDart71 Well-Known Member

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          ditto, I'm favoring the 340 route. If it doesn't work out, then 360. All in time.
           
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          • toolmanmike

            toolmanmike FABO Staff Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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            I have the original teen in my 70 Swinger. It needs to come out for a re-seal but if I could find the right engine...... well you know.
             
          • Mattax

            Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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            Get your priorities figured out.
            Are you ever going to sell it? Are you selling it next year?
            How original is it now and what else are you doing to it?
            Why did you buy/get it?
            Which is generally less important than How do you want to use it?

            Get that figured out and you can answer your questions yourself, and that will be far more satisfactory than what other people think.

            Then you can check the last one which is: How much money and time can you and will you put into it?

            340 will get you bragging rights, and easier to obtain 1/4 mile performance. It may gain sales value if done well (both internally and with the entire drivetrain and install) But nobody wants someone elses 1/2 done, or badly done hot rodding project. A lot of people won't even want your hot rod project - they have their own vision of cool.
            318 is an easier driver, good milage, good throttle response at street speeds and can pick up e.t. with some bolt on goodies like a 4 bbl, if you actually will run in in the 1/4 mile. Otherwise its mostly bragging right. Hot rod it wrong, and it won't be as nice to drive, and see comments about 340.
             
            Last edited: May 7, 2018
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            • SharpDart71

              SharpDart71 Well-Known Member

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              Exactly haha! They guy i'm talking to on here who is local to me is working some things out. If it doesn't work, i've got time. The 318 runs ok and gets me down the road. I just want something more! 360 even. My dad has a 65 GTO with a 456 stroker. I think i could beat him with the power to vehicle weight ration!! hahaha. Not building a drag car though, just a nice cruiser that will GO when i want it to. Rear suspension and cleanup is this coming Winter's project, while cleaning up a new engine if acquired.
               
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              • SharpDart71

                SharpDart71 Well-Known Member

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                Thanks! Definitely not building a racecar, but want something that can move from time to time. The guys on Roadkill have great info, and i've read a few good articles on building up 318's within reason.
                 
              • Ottmundr

                Ottmundr 68 Fastback

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                Why not build the original 318 into a stroker? You keep the originality of the block, and upgrade all at the same time.

                :thumbsup:
                 
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                • SharpDart71

                  SharpDart71 Well-Known Member

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                  Advice? Input? Kits/parts needed?
                   
                • Mattax

                  Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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                  Then most hot rod stuff is a waste of time and money because the engine won't be seeing 5000 rpm, or even 4000 rpm except occassionally. And most will disappoint because it comes at the expense of lower rpm performance. So if its not going to the track, focus on little things that will improve the 318 from idle to just over 3000 rpm and go drive it.
                   
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                  • roccodart440

                    roccodart440 Well-Known Member

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                    318 to 390
                     
                  • toolmanmike

                    toolmanmike FABO Staff Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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                    I don't know about Scat. It is a well known brand name though. You will still need intake, carb, good heads, probably headers, suitable cam. etc. It can spiral out of control in a hurry. Scat Engine Rotating Assemblies 1-98005BI

                    Or contact Johnny Mac here at Blueprint Engines and he can fix you up. BluePrint Engines
                     
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                    • 73dartswingerlover

                      73dartswingerlover Well-Known Member

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                      I had a similar issue with my original /6 but decided ill never sell the car.

                      At the time i read that the 340 after market parts and engine cost more than the 360 parts.

                      Found a 360 and 727 trans out of a motor home pulled and delivered for 1,000$.

                      Still working on getting it through the body shop but my budget is crap.

                      If i had a better budget id have bought a 360 stroker already done.
                       
                    • roccodart440

                      roccodart440 Well-Known Member

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                      • SharpDart71

                        SharpDart71 Well-Known Member

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                        What's the differences in the packages?
                         
                      • roccodart440

                        roccodart440 Well-Known Member

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                        Rod type and picton CC.
                         
                      • YY1

                        YY1 Well-Known Member

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                        for less than the cost of a rebuild you can probably put in a fairly low mile 300HP gross 5.9 and all the stuff that goes with it to make it work
                         
                      • YY1

                        YY1 Well-Known Member

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                        matching numbers on a 318 car doesn't carry the same weight as on a 340 car

                        unless it's a super low mile survivor worthy of the concourse tent

                        but I'd still pickle it and set it in the corner
                         
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                        • nm9stheham

                          nm9stheham Well-Known Member

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                          In general, finding a good 360 for a low price is a ton easier than a decent 340 to rebuild. But the eyes of the general public will open wider when you say those magic 3 numbers: '340'. (It sure does when my son mentions the 340 in his '65 'Cuda.) That may have a high personal value to you.

                          The 360/5.9L has more piston choices than any of them and gives you better low end torque out of the box.

                          A lot of this has to do with what you mean by 'more'. OP, can you help us with what you intend to do with this engine? Cruise? Drag race? Road race? 'More' than the stock 318 is at least going to be easy to accomplish.

                          BTW, as for budget, my son and I spent around $5k on his 340 with getting the block cheap ($300; that is good for a 340 block), using good breathing Edlebrock heads, having the machine work done locally, using a used crank, buying new chain, rockers, pushrods, pistons, rods, intake, cam, oil pump, and carb, and doing all the detailed measurements and assembly work ourselves. We had a new water pump, pan, timing cover, headers and distributor already. So you can see how the comment of the cost 'spirals out of control' can be true.
                           
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                          • nm9stheham

                            nm9stheham Well-Known Member

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                            You can see in these kits cast and forged cranks, and different rods (I vs H), and different pistons.

                            Forged cranks are generally stronger than cast cranks. Stock Mopar cranks are petty strong. Since these look like Eagle PN's and some Eagle cast cranks have been problematic, I'd chose the forged crank.

                            I beams are generally OK for street use. (H-beams are shown in all of the pix.)

                            The H-beam kits show a lower compression piston (that wold be more suitable for typical street use). I don't see why you could not get a kit with the lower compression pistons along with the I-beams; to me, that would be a decent street package. But the price range is under $400 difference form cheapest to priciest.

                            The number of cc's listed is for the volume in the head chambers, and this does not vary from one kit to another per the above link, since they all offer the same piston. The chamber volume varies with the heads (and how you may modify them); your stock 318 heads are around 68 cc for example. If you put on larger 360 heads (which you really would need to do), then the chambers are larger, around 73 cc's.

                            The size of the chambers works with the pistons and bore+stoke to determine static compression ratio. The compression ratios listed are fairly high; that would be OK for a large cam (high RPM, drag race) but might not be the best for other heads or for a small cam that would be more suitable for typical cruising.

                            That is the harder part: getting the heads, pistons, stoke, etc. to work together as a package. That is the reason for you to ID what your engine use is going to be for: cruise, pure race, or what?

                            I see you have answered the question; sorry I missed that. A strong cruiser. For most folks, IMHO that tends to emphasize a wide torque band and less peak HP. A stroker will do that, or any small block that is is not over-cammed for pure racing.
                             
                            Last edited: May 7, 2018
                          • SharpDart71

                            SharpDart71 Well-Known Member

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                            Lots of good information! still learning the lingo but yes, a strong cruiser is what I would like to build
                             
                          • Ottmundr

                            Ottmundr 68 Fastback

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                            If you do decide to go the stroker route with your 318, there are loads of options. Off the top of my head, there is Hughes or Campbell Enterprises, or Scat. Plenty of others, research research and research.
                             
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                            • stumblinhorse

                              stumblinhorse Well-Known Member

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                              I have been researching this a lot for my engine. You have to decide what you want to do and what your budget is. You can take your 318 to a 390, you doing the work for about $4500 with decent parts. That keeps the originality under the hood but gives you a lot more go pedal. You would be more if you drop off your 318 at a shop, you would be $5500. For $5k you can buy a warrantied 408 fully dressed from Blueprint. That would be just under 400hp. If you do that you need to plan a little more $$ for brackets etc to fit the 360. So you are probably at $5500 with that option after picking up the incidentals for a 360 with magnum heads.
                               
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