IMM Engines 408 build

[360duster]

do you run hydraulic roller lifters? These need a lot of preload, around .080" afaik. That´s what i run with mine (stock mopar from a early 90 360 roller cam block - unknown miles), no Problem at all.

Michael

 

[mullinax95]

You sure that's not an exh leak???
I would hate to see you pull the motor apart and spend more $$$ if you don't need too.

As soon as the engine starts sometimes the lifters clatter... it all depends on how long the engine has been setting. Most part no longer than 10hrs or maybe 12...not two days or three. So this has the red flag flying. Sometimes the tap is gone and sometimes it's back... loud as in the video. I would think that a header leak would be there all the time plus I can definitely tell it's coming from underneath the driver side valve cover.

I doubt those are Comp lifters in a Magnum engine. Probably Mopar Performance, or Sealed Power, something like that since he said OEM replacements. Those usually hold up decent if the spring pressures are not rediculous, which these shouldn't be. Probably just one lifter having issues. Can you tell which cylinder, or at least which side is making noise?
Also curious why you want to change the cam? Dyno numbers looked pretty stout.

Under the drivers side valve cover.
To be honest I want a cam that has some sound to it AND perform well. I know that sounds immature but it's what I want lol
I'm talking to a guy that is helping me with custom cam selection. Bit more overlap is all that is needed with the intake valve closing at 46º like the cam that is in it now. Might go smaller ... like 43º or so. Using the same lift and LSA.
Also the engine was dynoed using a carb. My truck is fuel injected so I don't believe the dyno numbers are going to reflect what's going to be made in the truck.. maybe more maybe less I don't know.

do you run hydraulic roller lifters? These need a lot of preload, around .080" afaik. That´s what i run with mine (stock mopar from a early 90 360 roller cam block - unknown miles), no Problem at all.

Michael

Brian states he goes 3/4 turn on these roller lifters. I'm thinking this is not enough. I thought about adjusting the valves to 1.5 turns see if it will help but as loud as this one is tapping I don't think it will make a difference.

 

[Cudafever]

Now that you have run the eng, go back and re torque your header bolts........if the sound goes away or changes, it's a header leak.

 

[mullinax95]

Now that you have run the eng, go back and re torque your header bolts........if the sound goes away or changes, it's a header leak.

I know what you're saying and I really appreciate you're help!
I will be changing cam soon anyways.

I took the drivers side valve cover off the other day (didn't mention this earlier.. I guess I should have) and checked most of not all of the rockers while the cam was on the base of the lobe. The engine had been shut off for at least three hours.
One of the rockers would move up and down much more than the others... I guess this is the bad lifter. The push rod would move with the rocker. Like the lifter wasn't pumping up. If all the rockers I checked was hard to move then I could say everything was OK but this one rocker moved up and down.

a) I've got to take the intake off to replace the lifters
b) Might as well change the cam out since I've got to remove the intake anyways.

 

[gregsdart]

Before you have a new cam ordered, find out how the extra overlap will affect the ability of the fuel injection system to function. It may give it fits!!

 

[famous bob]

Before you have a new cam ordered, find out how the extra overlap will affect the ability of the fuel injection system to function. It may give it fits!!

-------------THIS , may not give it fits , depending on how big u go, but can mess w/ it some for sure.

 

[Brian Hafliger]

Well I got crappy lifters in my engine IMM built for me and have a bad lifter or lifters. I noticed every time I crank the engine up after it has been sitting for a short while the lifters would clatter


I emailed Brian and he said "Usually over-revving or overstressing the lifter will do this also to a completely normal lifter so hard to tell."

The engine has around 40 miles on it and I can tell you I have not over revved the engine because the fuel sync has not been set and the proper tune has not been applied. I have not even got close to giving it the gas. Also I'm not one of those guys that just revs a engine at high RPMs while in park or neutral.

It's not a exhaust leak since sometimes it will not tap at all. The paper work for the engine just states "OEM lifters"

I'm thinking they are Comp Cam lifters installed in this engine.. china

So... here I go taking the intake off and switching out lifters.

I will install a known good name brand lifter like Morel, or Hylift Johnson. A lifter that can with stand stress or over revving since I like to do that don't you know.

While I'm in there I will change out the cam as well .. something that will perform better than what was dreamed up and just threw in there.

We use Eaton lifters, have for years...some of the best lifters we've ever used and found less problems with them than other companies...especially Morel. That's not fair at all to say we used crappy lifters, but whatever.

 

[yellow rose]

We use Eaton lifters, have for years...some of the best lifters we've ever used and found less problems with them than other companies...especially Morel. That's not fair at all to say we used crappy lifters, but whatever.

It's not like the engine builder makes the lifters, yet we get the blame. Again, this is why I don't like doing hydraulic anything anymore. The lobes are more aggressive, the spring rates are higher, RPM's are higher and it takes a bunch of work to make a hydraulic lifter happy.

 

[mullinax95]

We use Eaton lifters, have for years...some of the best lifters we've ever used and found less problems with them than other companies...especially Morel. That's not fair at all to say we used crappy lifters, but whatever.

It would have been nice for you to write down "Eaton" on the paper work instead of"OEM".
Then maybe I would have had a slight indication on what was used in the engine.

What's not fair is I will have to remove the intake and replace the lifters. What's not fair is you to say I have over revved the engine... IF... that is what you was indicating in the email you sent. As much money I have sank in this engine ... believe me when I say I have babied it. I have not got the fuel sync set yet because I have not found anyone with the proper scanner.... but it is very close I think. I have not got it tuned yet because the tuner wants the fuel sync set first before he starts to tune it. As I drive it to work I have been keeping a eye on the wideband gauge and keeping a eye on the plugs. This is the reason I have not "got on it" or any type of "over revving".

I apologize for calling the lifters crappy... but as you see in the video... something isn't right.
If I did something to cause this issue I would admit it but that's the reason I'm so adamant about this is because I truly know I didn't.

All I know right now is I'm going to have fix my brand new engine because of bad lifters.

 

[mullinax95]

Before you have a new cam ordered, find out how the extra overlap will affect the ability of the fuel injection system to function. It may give it fits!!

-------------THIS , may not give it fits , depending on how big u go, but can mess w/ it some for sure.

I'm working on it. Have not heard back from the tuner yet.

 

[yellow rose]

It would have been nice for you to write down "Eaton" on the paper work instead of"OEM".
Then maybe I would have had a slight indication on what was used in the engine.

What's not fair is I will have to remove the intake and replace the lifters. What's not fair is you to say I have over revved the engine... IF... that is what you was indicating in the email you sent. As much money I have sank in this engine ... believe me when I say I have babied it. I have not got the fuel sync set yet because I have not found anyone with the proper scanner.... but it is very close I think. I have not got it tuned yet because the tuner wants the fuel sync set first before he starts to tune it. As I drive it to work I have been keeping a eye on the wideband gauge and keeping a eye on the plugs. This is the reason I have not "got on it" or any type of "over revving".

I apologize for calling the lifters crappy... but as you see in the video... something isn't right.
If I did something to cause this issue I would admit it but that's the reason I'm so adamant about this is because I truly know I didn't.

All I know right now is I'm going to have fix my brand new engine because of bad lifters.

Fair? Who told you this **** is fair? I can tell you it's way easier to lose money building engines than it is to make it. The builder has no idea what happens to stuff once it leaves the shop.

Did you dyno the engine? There is ample information on the web why on why not to use hydraulic lifters. But the guys who want all the cake and want to eat all the cake thinks that's how it works.

BTW, this isn't leveled at you mull. It's general observations. It's from decades of doing this ****. It's from decades of watching what little quality there was is almost totally gone.

 

[mullinax95]

Fair? Who told you this **** is fair? I can tell you it's way easier to lose money building engines than it is to make it. The builder has no idea what happens to stuff once it leaves the shop.

Did you dyno the engine? There is ample information on the web why on why not to use hydraulic lifters. But the guys who want all the cake and want to eat all the cake thinks that's how it works.

BTW, this isn't leveled at you mull. It's general observations. It's from decades of doing this ****. It's from decades of watching what little quality there was is almost totally gone.

Brian dynoed the engine.

I'm thinking about going with Rhodes V-max lifters this time.

 

[Brian Hafliger]

It would have been nice for you to write down "Eaton" on the paper work instead of"OEM".
Then maybe I would have had a slight indication on what was used in the engine.

What's not fair is I will have to remove the intake and replace the lifters. What's not fair is you to say I have over revved the engine... IF... that is what you was indicating in the email you sent. As much money I have sank in this engine ... believe me when I say I have babied it. I have not got the fuel sync set yet because I have not found anyone with the proper scanner.... but it is very close I think. I have not got it tuned yet because the tuner wants the fuel sync set first before he starts to tune it. As I drive it to work I have been keeping a eye on the wideband gauge and keeping a eye on the plugs. This is the reason I have not "got on it" or any type of "over revving".

I apologize for calling the lifters crappy... but as you see in the video... something isn't right.
If I did something to cause this issue I would admit it but that's the reason I'm so adamant about this is because I truly know I didn't.

All I know right now is I'm going to have fix my brand new engine because of bad lifters.

After we dyno an engine, I always listen to them, with and without ear muffs...especially around the valve cover area. There was no noise at that time...and if there was, this engine would have been super easy to fix a lifter issue, as we removed the intake manifold and shipped it without it (Marland was using his intake). So that would have been really easy to fix. Sorry for your troubles, but honestly it was fine when it was shipped. Don't know what else to say....

 

[mullinax95]

After we dyno an engine, I always listen to them, with and without ear muffs...especially around the valve cover area. There was no noise at that time...and if there was, this engine would have been super easy to fix a lifter issue, as we removed the intake manifold and shipped it without it (Marland was using his intake). So that would have been really easy to fix. Sorry for your troubles, but honestly it was fine when it was shipped. Don't know what else to say....

I'm not overly upset about it... like throwing things and such..lol
Crap happens ... but it seems to always happen to me.
I don't know if it has anything to do with it but I'm using 10W/30 Joe Gibbs Driven oil.
Oil pressure always looks good.
Sometimes the tapping goes away and the engine runs silently .... I mean most of the time there is no tapping. I just got lucky and caught it while I took the video.

What's you opinion on Rhodes V-max lifters?
If I use these they are adjustable, more vacuum, and torque... so they say.
I'm afraid to use low quality lifters now and it seems like these lifters don't give any trouble by what others have said. I realize the have a mechanical sound... I don't think that will manner but I have never heard a engine with these type lifters.

 

[Cudafever]

I'm just going to say this.
Rhodes lifters are noise, especially at idle...........I think they will drive you Crazy!?!@#$%#@$

 

[mullinax95]

I'm just going to say this.
Rhodes lifters are noise, especially at idle...........I think they will drive you Crazy!?!@#$%#@$

I'm already crazy... don't need to make it worse...lol
Ok... Rhodes is out.
I talked to Richard at Hipotek and he said a few of his customers have complained how noisy the Rhodes lifters are. I guess they wasn't expecting them to be THAT noisy.

 

[Cudafever]

I know i'm going to catch hell for this but a Rhoads lifter is partially collapsed/leaking lifter, that pumps up, with rpm and oil pressure)

 

[stixx]

I'm afraid to use low quality lifters now

I honestly don't think Easton lifters can be considered a low quality lifter when Brian has used them on many of his builds with success. He would be out of business really fast when he was using low quality stuff, and his reputation seems to be quite solid. So I guess it was bad luck for you.
Reminds me of the other thread with the lash caps falling out... turns out the OP turned the engine over, draining the lifters and then having issues... just sayin'.

 

[RAMM]

We use Eaton lifters, have for years...some of the best lifters we've ever used and found less problems with them than other companies...especially Morel. That's not fair at all to say we used crappy lifters, but whatever.

I find Melling OEM style lifters have been good to me. Not sure if Melling makes them or reboxes them but.... J.Rob

 

[RAMM]

It's not like the engine builder makes the lifters, yet we get the blame. Again, this is why I don't like doing hydraulic anything anymore. The lobes are more aggressive, the spring rates are higher, RPM's are higher and it takes a bunch of work to make a hydraulic lifter happy.

Oh isn't this the truth. Not long ago a customer came in and wanted a Lunati cam KIT with lifters ordered. I recommended a couple of different kit #'s and he picked one, picked up the kit, installed it in his 350 Chevy and came back a week later complaining of lifter noise. I ordered up a set of Melling's and GAVE them to him on the promise that I would need back the faulty ones if Lunati would come good for them. Guess what? He seemed to think I manufactured the lifters wrong and I did this to him on purpose anyways , my name was mud and I'm out a set of lifters NET loss of $30 or so. Should have told him to E-bay it or some such ****. J.Rob

 

[RAMM]

After we dyno an engine, I always listen to them, with and without ear muffs...especially around the valve cover area. There was no noise at that time...and if there was, this engine would have been super easy to fix a lifter issue, as we removed the intake manifold and shipped it without it (Marland was using his intake). So that would have been really easy to fix. Sorry for your troubles, but honestly it was fine when it was shipped. Don't know what else to say....

You can put your earmuff right on the valvecover for a quick hear see but I use a stethoscope numerous times throughout the course of a dyno session and if it doesn't sound like a sewing machine under the covers-somethings wrong. Even a solid cam that is adjusted right and happy will sound like this. p.s. I'm starting to hate hydraulics for anything but the most mild of applications. So here's Brian covering all of his bases, dyno test and all. He ships the engine and customer installs it and bam minor but annoying problem right out of the gate. Yup seems about right. This trade....this trade. J.Rob

 

[famous bob]

I know i'm going to catch hell for this but a Rhoads lifter is partially collapsed/leaking lifter, that pumps up, with rpm and oil pressure)

This is what I`ve always heard and read.

 

[famous bob]

I honestly don't think Easton lifters can be considered a low quality lifter when Brian has used them on many of his builds with success. He would be out of business really fast when he was using low quality stuff, and his reputation seems to be quite solid. So I guess it was bad luck for you.
Reminds me of the other thread with the lash caps falling out... turns out the OP turned the engine over, draining the lifters and then having issues... just sayin'.

I think some one already posted this, but lash caps are for hi lift solid rollers.

 

[gregsdart]

I have to say, I admire folks that live in a mine field for a living (build engines, etc) after learning over the years a simple fact; I don't know what I don't know! This has brought about many wrong conclusions for sure, and some conclusions that were wrong were the fact that the problem was someone else's.
A real rooky mistake by a friend of mine MANY years ago led him to believe that the three engine failures (catastrophic) was a poor engine builder. Not true. His mistake was in dialing in 20 degrees ENITIAL timing in a stock distributor, not knowing that now he had about 52 degrees total in a 13.5 /1 compression 340! Needless to say, BOOM! surprisingly the motors lasted a few passes each between failures.

 

[stixx]

I think some one already posted this, but lash caps are for hi lift solid rollers.

Yup I know... just mentioned it because the OP with the lash caps turned the engine over resulting in unwanted problems...