Initial inspection of A500

[MObarracuda]

Im not a transmission guy and this is the first time working on one. I’d like your first impressions on the condition of the 1991 A500 I picked up for my Swap. I don’t know how many miles were on the vehicle as it had a dash fire but we rigged wires to make it shift into OD and the lock up and it shifed as it should on a short drive. The shift quality was good but they might have been a little soft.

For those who have experience in this area please look at the pictures and let me know if the debris on the magnet and on the filter looks normal or should it be sent off for a rebuild. Let me know if there is further disassembly I should do for a more complete inspection.

It looks clean inside upon initial inspection

The magnet had some material built up on it. I don’t know how much is normal

There were what look to be sand like bits in the filter

I think the snap ring has a magnetic charge as it held the disbris in the photo

How bad is this?

Can you tell anything about the condition of the tranny from the pictures?

 

[Vamisk]

Based on what i see everything looks good, the magnet is doing its job, its there to collect that debris so you shouldn't be worried about that necessarily. If you aren't squeamish about taking it apart you should do a visual inspection of the hard parts.

 

[TrailBeast]

Im not a transmission guy and this is the first time working on one. I’d like your first impressions on the condition of the 1991 A500 I picked up for my Swap. I don’t know how many miles were on the vehicle as it had a dash fire but we rigged wires to make it shift into OD and the lock up and it shifed as it should on a short drive. The shift quality was good but they might have been a little soft.

For those who have experience in this area please look at the pictures and let me know if the debris on the magnet and on the filter looks normal or should it be sent off for a rebuild. Let me know if there is further disassembly I should do for a more complete inspection.

View attachment 1715308877

It looks clean inside upon initial inspection

View attachment 1715308878

The magnet had some material built up on it. I don’t know how much is normal

View attachment 1715308879 View attachment 1715308880 View attachment 1715308881 View attachment 1715308882 View attachment 1715308883

There were what look to be sand like bits in the filter

View attachment 1715308884

I think the snap ring has a magnetic charge as it held the disbris in the photo

View attachment 1715308885

How bad is this?

View attachment 1715308886

Can you tell anything about the condition of the tranny from the pictures?

That looks really good to me.
I like seeing fluid that looks a bit used as it tells me there is a good chance the trans is fine, and that no one tried new fluid to try and fix a problem.
The debris is totally normal, as is the blackish paste.
The black paste is aluminum that wears off the converter fins when high pressure fluid hits it. (also completely normal)

 

[MObarracuda]

That looks really good to me.
I like seeing fluid that looks a bit used as it tells me there is a good chance the trans is fine, and that no one tried new fluid to try and fix a problem.
The debris is totally normal, as is the blackish paste.
The black paste is aluminum that wears off the converter fins when high pressure fluid hits it. (also completely normal)

Based on your report I’m going to instal it and give it a go. I purchased a reman high stall tourqe converter. Anything besides a new filter and pan gasket? I have heard of tourqe band adjustments. I have the RE Manual (damn ebay seller said it was for both) but I think they are the same. Should I try to complete an adjustment before buttoning it up? Anything else I should do in your opinion? I appreciate your time in advance.

 

[Vamisk]

It might be an RH in which case it's mostly (or all) hydraulically controlled, the RE is electronically controlled. Did you drive the donor vehicle? If it was shifting fine no adjustments should be needed. IMO i would reseal the whole transmission just to do it.

 

[TrailBeast]

Based on your report I’m going to instal it and give it a go. I purchased a reman high stall tourqe converter. Anything besides a new filter and pan gasket? I have heard of tourqe band adjustments. I have the RE Manual (damn ebay seller said it was for both) but I think they are the same. Should I try to complete an adjustment before buttoning it up? Anything else I should do in your opinion? I appreciate your time in advance.

At the very least a new seal should be put in the pump while it's accessible.
The shift shaft seals are hard to get to in the car just so you know.
If it looks wet or like it's collecting dirt around the shift shaft seal it would be a lot easier to do it before it goes in.

Also note that the A500 uses 3/8 cooler lines and the 904/727 uses 5/16 and the fittings are different.
On mine I swapped to the 3/8 all the way up to the radiator by using compression union to pipe thread fittings in the trans case.
It just made sense to keep it all 3/8 cooler line, though I'm not sure what the cooler coils in the radiator are.
You could also use 5/16 compression union to pipe thread to keep your existing lines I guess, but I figured what the heck and swapped it all.
One thing I noticed was once the unions were in and run for a couple of days they needed to be re tightened because they seeped a little, but after that one re tightening they have been fine.

 

[MObarracuda]

At the very least a new seal should be put in the pump while it's accessible.
The shift shaft seals are hard to get to in the car just so you know.
If it looks wet or like it's collecting dirt around the shift shaft seal it would be a lot easier to do it before it goes in.

Also note that the A500 uses 3/8 cooler lines and the 904/727 uses 5/16 and the fittings are different.
On mine I swapped to the 3/8 all the way up to the radiator by using compression union to pipe thread fittings in the trans case.
It just made sense to keep it all 3/8 cooler line, though I'm not sure what the cooler coils in the radiator are.
You could also use 5/16 compression union to pipe thread to keep your existing lines I guess, but I figured what the heck and swapped it all.
One thing I noticed was once the unions were in and run for a couple of days they needed to be re tightened because they seeped a little, but after that one re tightening they have been fine.

View attachment 1715309013

At the very least a new seal should be put in the pump while it's accessible.
The shift shaft seals are hard to get to in the car just so you know.
If it looks wet or like it's collecting dirt around the shift shaft seal it would be a lot easier to do it before it goes in.

Also note that the A500 uses 3/8 cooler lines and the 904/727 uses 5/16 and the fittings are different.
On mine I swapped to the 3/8 all the way up to the radiator by using compression union to pipe thread fittings in the trans case.
It just made sense to keep it all 3/8 cooler line, though I'm not sure what the cooler coils in the radiator are.
You could also use 5/16 compression union to pipe thread to keep your existing lines I guess, but I figured what the heck and swapped it all.
One thing I noticed was once the unions were in and run for a couple of days they needed to be re tightened because they seeped a little, but after that one re tightening they have been fine.

View attachment 1715309013

Great advise....I will change both seals for the pump and tail shaft while it is out. I do have a few more questions if you don’t mind answering them for me

1) What do you like for a tranny pan gasket? Cork or composite? Do you use and sealants like RTV or gasket tack?
2) Would you replace the solinoid pack while I have access?
3) are any of the shift kits a must have when running a mild 340 stroker for basic street use?
4) which cooler port is the (hot) discharge and (cool) return between the front and rear ports.
5) any thing else you can think of???

Car set up 340 stroker, 650 avs2, eddy cylinder heads, 340 exhaust manifolds and 3.55 rear ended ratio. The tranny will be plumbed with 3/8 lines to an external filter then to the external tranny thermostat and to a plate and frame cooler and back.

Thanks in advance for your time.

 

[MObarracuda]

It might be an RH in which case it's mostly (or all) hydraulically controlled, the RE is electronically controlled. Did you drive the donor vehicle? If it was shifting fine no adjustments should be needed. IMO i would reseal the whole transmission just to do it.

Yes I rode in the doner vehicle. It shifted fine but the shifts we very smooth. I couldn’t tell if they were smooth or loose as I was on a gravel road for the test...overall I’m very pleased with what I see.

 

[Jadaharabi]

340 stroker
I would do a shift kit,
a billet low/reverse piston with hd retainer,
hd strut link,
adjust both bands,
new filter,
reusable pan gasket,
front rear and shifter shaft seal,
jmho.

 

[C130 Chief]

I would seriously consider a TransGo TFOD kit set to about level 2 before you put the pan back on. The front is basically a 904, so do what you would do to a 904 behind the same engine. And I'm not sure a 904 would be my first choice behind a mild stroker if I expected it to last very long.

 

[CudaFactHackJob]

Take it apart. At least the front drums back to the snap ring. Every single thing that C130 said. Adjust out the end play to .020 and put red eagles in the drums and a kevlar band. Total cost about $200.

 

[MObarracuda]

I would seriously consider a TransGo TFOD kit set to about level 2 before you put the pan back on. The front is basically a 904, so do what you would do to a 904 behind the same engine. And I'm not sure a 904 would be my first choice behind a mild stroker if I expected it to last very long.

I’m hoping since this transmission was installed on a pick up truck that weighed 5400 pounds it will be OK behind the 340 on a car that weighs 3000 pounds. My internals in the stroker are a cast crank and cast rods. I won’t be sending her above 5500 rpm very often.

 

[MObarracuda]

Take it apart. At least the front drums back to the snap ring. Every single thing that C130 said. Adjust out the end play to .020 and put red eagles in the drums and a kevlar band. Total cost about $200.

$200 bucks sounds very reasonable.

 

[CudaFactHackJob]

Looking at the top of your third pic, I see what looks like a lot of trash in the bottom of the pan. If the clutches are scorched, they aren't for long in this world. The mistake most beginners make is they take the whole damn thing apart to do a "super duper rebuild". Just drop out the pump and front drums. Don't take the pump apart; just replace the front seal, pump gasket pump oring and the gasket washers on the pump bolts. Don't take the pistons out of the drums; just replace the frictions. But before you take it apart, pull in and out on the input shaft and see how far you can go in and out. NOT side to side; loose is normal there. Say if it's like 1/8" no biggie, but you could replace the little fiber button on the front of the mid shaft with a thicker one. Lots of suppliers furnish thin frictions for the forward clutch(the back one) and thicker ones for the front clutch, but you want all thins.

 

[TrailBeast]

Great advise....I will change both seals for the pump and tail shaft while it is out. I do have a few more questions if you don’t mind answering them for me

1) What do you like for a tranny pan gasket? Cork or composite? Do you use and sealants like RTV or gasket tack?
2) Would you replace the solinoid pack while I have access?
3) are any of the shift kits a must have when running a mild 340 stroker for basic street use?
4) which cooler port is the (hot) discharge and (cool) return between the front and rear ports.
5) any thing else you can think of???

Car set up 340 stroker, 650 avs2, eddy cylinder heads, 340 exhaust manifolds and 3.55 rear ended ratio. The tranny will be plumbed with 3/8 lines to an external filter then to the external tranny thermostat and to a plate and frame cooler and back.

Thanks in advance for your time.

1.I like the 42R series rubber over steel re usable gasket from the OEM.
2. I wouldn't replace the solenoid pack unless there was a problem already.
They are easy to replace later if a problem arises.
3. These transmission are basically a 904 that has the same soft and early shifts as any other stock 904, so the stage 2 Transgo kit works great to fix that.
When I put mine in I went with the middle of the road mods of the instructions so as to not make it uncomfortable in the shift quality when just cruising.
If I was doing it again I would put a stiffer spring in the 1-2 shuttle valve, but other than that I like it.
4. Front port for cooler lines is out to the cooler, and the rear port is the return.
5. Most tell a guy to do a higher end parts rebuild before it goes in.
For the guy that has not done one before I don't recommend that, because there are too many things that can go wrong when changing so much at a time.
I'm also not one to tell everyone they can do it at home either, unless they really want to. (There are a lot of us here that can help with questions and such)

I used to build them for a living (shop foreman/builder for a large chain) so I just did the swap with the shift kit and will go back in and fix or upgrade whatever I need to later if needed. (It's just a transmission and not even a 4x4 ) but years later and probably 20k miles it still works as good as the day it went in.
I did my 5.9 Magnum and A500 swap in a weekend because I needed the car Monday morning.
The next weekend I built the automatic shifting system for it.
I only pay $150 for these transmissions, so if I need to replace it it's not a big deal.
BTW, what was in the pan on mine was pretty much exactly what yours has.
I rinsed the obvious stuff out with ATF, cleaned the pan out, replaced the filter and put it in.
I rinsed and blew out the valve body while I had it apart for the kit.

I’m hoping since this transmission was installed on a pick up truck that weighed 5400 pounds it will be OK behind the 340 on a car that weighs 3000 pounds. My internals in the stroker are a cast crank and cast rods. I won’t be sending her above 5500 rpm very often.

That's pretty much the way I looked at it when I put mine in, so all I did was to add the stage 2 Transgo kit.
(they are also rated for 5k lbs towing capacity, so add that to the things your 3000 lb car won't be doing.)

 

[plumkrazee70]

Following. Great advise.

 

[MObarracuda]

1.I like the 42R series rubber over steel re usable gasket from the OEM.
2. I wouldn't replace the solenoid pack unless there was a problem already.
They are easy to replace later if a problem arises.
3. These transmission are basically a 904 that has the same soft and early shifts as any other stock 904, so the stage 2 Transgo kit works great to fix that.
When I put mine in I went with the middle of the road mods of the instructions so as to not make it uncomfortable in the shift quality when just cruising.
If I was doing it again I would put a stiffer spring in the 1-2 shuttle valve, but other than that I like it.
4. Front port for cooler lines is out to the cooler, and the rear port is the return.
5. Most tell a guy to do a higher end parts rebuild before it goes in.
For the guy that has not done one before I don't recommend that, because there are too many things that can go wrong when changing so much at a time.
I'm also not one to tell everyone they can do it at home either, unless they really want to. (There are a lot of us here that can help with questions and such)

I used to build them for a living (shop foreman/builder for a large chain) so I just did the swap with the shift kit and will go back in and fix or upgrade whatever I need to later if needed. (It's just a transmission and not even a 4x4 ) but years later and probably 20k miles it still works as good as the day it went in.
I did my 5.9 Magnum and A500 swap in a weekend because I needed the car Monday morning.
The next weekend I built the automatic shifting system for it.
I only pay $150 for these transmissions, so if I need to replace it it's not a big deal.
BTW, what was in the pan on mine was pretty much exactly what yours has.
I rinsed the obvious stuff out with ATF, cleaned the pan out, replaced the filter and put it in.
I rinsed and blew out the valve body while I had it apart for the kit.



That's pretty much the way I looked at it when I put mine in, so all I did was to add the stage 2 Transgo kit.
(they are also rated for 5k lbs towing capacity, so add that to the things your 3000 lb car won't be doing.)

Best advise I have received all year....thanks for taking the time to type it all out.

 

[CudaFactHackJob]

If you have a lift and a trans jack and all the air tools, then dropping your trans after a few months will be a real pleasure. Then you can find out that it's about as complicated inside as a carburetor. Actually, just refurbishing the front guts is simpler than a carb. "When there isn't enough time to do it right; there's always enough time to do it twice." Why anyone would trust flimsy 904 guts is beyond me; when it's twice as easy to check it out than to tear the thing all back out again. You've got a lot of different types of debris in that pan and filter. No way I would trust that trans. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[TrailBeast]

If you have a lift and a trans jack and all the air tools, then dropping your trans after a few months will be a real pleasure. Then you can find out that it's about as complicated inside as a carburetor. Actually, just refurbishing the front guts is simpler than a carb. "When there isn't enough time to do it right; there's always enough time to do it twice." Why anyone would trust flimsy 904 guts is beyond me; when it's twice as easy to check it out than to tear the thing all back out again. You've got a lot of different types of debris in that pan and filter. No way I would trust that trans. I hope I'm wrong.

Not trying to argue with you on it, but one of my jobs in the business was to do the pan drop inspections when vehicles came in for a filter and fluid service.
One of the laws where I lived said we could not use the pan content to convince a customer that they needed a rebuild unless the customer asked to see it.
(This was because the pan content could be used to scare a customer into a rebuild they didn't need, because they can look kind of scary to someone not familiar with normal wear contents)
(Not saying you are not, but that the average Joe isn't)

I would tell them that the law was as such, and most of the time they would ask.
They would kind of freak out about a pan like the one above and I would tell them it was actually fairly normal.
I saw thousands of pans that looked like that and wouldn't recommend a rebuild unless the pan had the black flakes, extreme amounts of material stuck to the magnet or the trans exhibited issue's.

Clutch and front band material comes off in black flakes when toasted and the fluid looks well used but not burned, and that collection of junk on the reverse band servo very likely got there from the trans being flipped over.

 

[CudaFactHackJob]

Most of the trans that I've rebuilt did not have flakes but rather a fine greasy mush in the bottom of the pan with some particles mixed in. A lot of the particles get suspended in the fluid, but most of the fine fiber particles go thru the filter and are lodged in the perimeter of the converter by centrifugal force. I've taken pans off and found almost nothing plenty of times. Along with bright pink fluid (which he does not have). On this particular trans, I see some black mush but I also see brass particles; which would make me grab that input shaft and check the endplay immediately. It would be a larger commitment to condemn a trans that was still in a vehicle but on this one, I wouldn't be comfortable driving it a long distance. Fact is, we really don't know if the fluid and filter have been changed in the past and particles were already cleaned out at least one time. Going behind a 340 stroker motor with Edelbrock heads and god knows what else; that's a $5,000 motor easy...and the guy's gonna slap a junkyard tranny behind it? Does not compute. It's just too easy to check it out. Dropping the vb to change the seal and you're almost there anyhow.

 

[TrailBeast]

Most of the trans that I've rebuilt did not have flakes but rather a fine greasy mush in the bottom of the pan with some particles mixed in. A lot of the particles get suspended in the fluid, but most of the fine fiber particles go thru the filter and are lodged in the perimeter of the converter by centrifugal force. I've taken pans off and found almost nothing plenty of times. Along with bright pink fluid (which he does not have). On this particular trans, I see some black mush but I also see brass particles; which would make me grab that input shaft and check the endplay immediately. It would be a larger commitment to condemn a trans that was still in a vehicle but on this one, I wouldn't be comfortable driving it a long distance. Fact is, we really don't know if the fluid and filter have been changed in the past and particles were already cleaned out at least one time. Going behind a 340 stroker motor with Edelbrock heads and god knows what else; that's a $5,000 motor easy...and the guy's gonna slap a junkyard tranny behind it? Does not compute. It's just too easy to check it out. Dropping the vb to change the seal and you're almost there anyhow.

I hear ya, and I'm sure he would rather have it built by a pro with every upgraded part that exists for it, but we all have to do what we can when we can.
It's also easy for us to say it's easy.

 

[CudaFactHackJob]

But it's nothing to drop out the front guts like I suggested earlier. How about at least checking the end play? Nothing to it. We know the weak spot on those is the direct clutch and that's the first drum to come out. It's so easy I don't understand all the discussion on checking it.

 

[plumkrazee70]

But it's nothing to drop out the front guts like I suggested earlier. How about at least checking the end play? Nothing to it. We know the weak spot on those is the direct clutch and that's the first drum to come out. It's so easy I don't understand all the discussion on checking it.

Are there special tools involved with tearing doen the front? I'm about to tear into mine, here real soon. The guy I bought it from claims it was rebuilt, but he never ran it. Quite possible as it has the 518 OD tailshaft on it and a shift kit, from what I can see.

 

[CudaFactHackJob]

Are there special tools involved with tearing doen the front? I'm about to tear into mine, here real soon. The guy I bought it from claims it was rebuilt, but he never ran it. Quite possible as it has the 518 OD tailshaft on it and a shift kit, from what I can see.

No. First thing pull in and out on the input shaft to get some idea of how much end play there is. You're just doing the front right? Tearing into the whole trans is not for beginners. Remove pump bolts and you'll find that there are two of them that have threaded holes for pulling, but you can also pry between the drums after the valve body is removed. spray oil around the pump to help it out. There's a huge square cut o-ring around the pump that seals it, that's why it doesn't just fall right out. Back off the front band adjuster. the strut will fall out. Pry gently between the drums, tap the pump back in, repeat and lube each time until it comes out. The only thing different is if you want to remove the front drum piston. It's a hassle you might want to avoid unless the clutch is worn out.

 

[Slowswinger]

Tom Hand wrote an excellent book about torqueflite trans. Worth the money if your going to take it apart.