Initial timing

Slant 6 Engines

  1. TXBarracuda

    TXBarracuda FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Hello all,

    Let's pretend for a minute that I'm a blubbering fool. Took out the distributor to clean it up. I checked position before hand, and set it to point roughly 12 o'clock. Put it back in, timing was off. Figured I set it off just a tooth. Adjusted, set it back in. Fired up, timing was worse. Set it two teeth the other way. Better, but not there, and adjustment was just a little short. Set it another tooth, and poof, gone. A few more adjustments, still nothing.

    Well, I'm a genius. Pulled #2 plug, had the wife bump it to compression. Pointed rotor at #2, and nothing.

    How do I reset timing to right?
     
  2. TXBarracuda

    TXBarracuda FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Disregard, I'm a moron. Had it 180* out
     
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    • RustyRatRod

      RustyRatRod Bla de blizhibliz de blatde blizi bla bla FABO Gold Member

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      You know what? I've timed literally hundreds of engines. Possibly into the low thousands and the slant six always gives me trouble. Every. Single. Time. Without fail. LOL
       
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      • TXBarracuda

        TXBarracuda FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        This one I have the pleasure of timing by ear. No timing plate. Yay me.
         
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        • Demonic

          Demonic Well-Known Member

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          Every Mopar guy has done that once. :D
           
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          • AJ/FormS

            AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s

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            My Dad used to time his cars by ear too.
            No disrespect to a dead man but,..........
            His cars all ran likechit.
             
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            • RustyRatRod

              RustyRatRod Bla de blizhibliz de blatde blizi bla bla FABO Gold Member

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              Well when I say time, I mean as you did, set the distributor in. Once there and correct, I have no trouble at all. It's getting it stabbed in correctly where I always get it off a tooth or three. "I guess" it's because it's in a tough spot and a bad angle "way down there". Or it could just be my stupidness.
               
            • TXBarracuda

              TXBarracuda FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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              I grew up on old Chevy's. Distributor only went in 2 ways. You were either right or wrong, no "close, but you suck".

              Timing by ear is probably the absolute worse way to get it done. I'll end up getting a vacuum gauge and going that route. Next up is converting to hei. It's been a couple of decades since I've gapped points, and I'm not big on playing that monthly game.

              I was going to rebuild this distributor with a petronix kit, but, it's about due for a complete overhaul anyway. Going to pick up a new distributor, then rebuild this one as a spare.

              From my understanding, the timing marks are useless anymore due to how advanced it needs to go. Is this only true if I stay points, or is it the same with hei as well?
               
            • RustyRatRod

              RustyRatRod Bla de blizhibliz de blatde blizi bla bla FABO Gold Member

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              I respectfully disagree. I have timed engines by ear for years and double checked by light. All in all, I'd say it's a crap shoot as to which one is better. I say that, as long as you do it a certain way and not just shootin from the hip. If we were all outside standing next to one, I'd show you what I was talkin about. It's not difficult at all. It just takes a little practice. You'd be danged surprised how good you can do without a light.
               
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              • TXBarracuda

                TXBarracuda FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                I find I tend to advance a little too much. Get it sounding good, turn it off, and then it fights to fire back up. Back it off a little bit and all is well. My Jeep is advanced off of the timing marks, and it loves it. I use the light to guesstimate the mark. Nice and steady ~20* btdc. Wasn't sure about it at first, but it does not like being timed "right".
                 
              • 67Dart273

                67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                I don't know where you understood that.....................but no

                What you do is, you use a "dial up" timing light (which I don't like, and have been trapped twice "back then" by ones which were not accurate) or mark the damper so you CAN read it far advanced. While you are at it, get/ make a piston stop and check the TDC mark for accuracy.

                It's been a long time, but I seem to remember older Ferds were factory marked up to about 30? BTC. I never understood why they didn't finish the job.
                 
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                • TXBarracuda

                  TXBarracuda FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                  I'll have to find a marker plate to attach and check. Timing chain is tight, so tdc *should* be accurate.
                   
                • AJ/FormS

                  AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s

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                  The timing chain has nothing to do with TDC.
                  Base timing, in the grand scheme of things means just about nothing.
                  Your engine, at any given moment, has a timing need that is constantly changing, based on load and rpm.
                  To think that you could hit anything right by ear timing the idle, is, IMO, ridiculous.
                  Your engine has
                  a basic power-timing curve
                  a maximum power timing number that varies only slightly from one engine to the next.
                  an idle timing flexibility almost beyond understanding
                  a PT load timing variance of many many many degrees
                  a huge cruise timing target that is rarely met.
                  a deceleration timing requirement that is almost totally ignored
                  a need for altitude compensation, a need for fuel quality compensation, and a need to compensate for the engine's age.
                  To imagine that you can twist the D and meet any of these needs is shear lunacy.
                  But yeah, if yur just setting the idle timing, you can set that be ear. So what. It is the very least important setting of all. Most engines will be happy with 10 to 30 degrees of idle timing; that's a heckuva window.
                  By contrast, most engines will be happy with just 34 to 36 degrees of power timing, somewhere after 3500 rpm.
                  And most engines will want cruise timing of well into the 50s.
                  Which of these are you gonna tune by ear?

                  I tell you what, maybe I'm a dummy, but after 5 years/50,000 miles , I was still fudging with my timing, in an ongoing quest for this and that, using hard data to develop my timing curves. Oh, to think I couldda just timed it by ear......

                  I'll tell you a secret; without a computer, you will never optimize ALL your engines timing requirements. Without a computer,the very best you can hope for is to get the power-timing right, and let the rest be as close as it gets. Idle timing counts for just about nothing until it dicks with your transferslots.

                  But yeah, if yur just setting the idle timing, you can set that be ear.............
                   
                  Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
                • TXBarracuda

                  TXBarracuda FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                  The timing chain has everything to do with your timing being correct at tdc. Sloppy timing chain and no amount of computerized test equipment will help you out.

                  Pretty long winded post to agree with us all that timing by ear isn't a great option.
                   
                • AJ/FormS

                  AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s

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                  TDC is a fixed relationship between the piston and the top of the stroke.
                  Otherwise, yes, the timing chain affects the cam timing which affects the ignition timing.
                   
                  Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
                • petty437

                  petty437 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                  Yeah. Still struggling to get mine fired after installing a new timing set. Very frustrating.
                   
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