just need a quick confirmation on my idiocy

kiyoshi

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quick info

LA360 mild cam, headers, carb, performer rpm intake, had been sitting, removed dizzy to prime motor through oil pump shaft and placed it back in.

Got a job, lost ALL time to work on it

Finally getting back around to working on it and it would start and sounded REALLY rough

Took everything apart and just needed confirmation.....

I put the distributor in 180 by accident right? The lobe with the metal connection on the white plastic portion of the distributor is currently 180 from where it is SUPPOSED to be on the number 1 cylinder position, correct?

I've been working on efi 1990+ japanese cars and I just really want to take the time to ensure I'm not doing this incorrectly.

I had done a bit of searching and researching regarding initial/total timing, vacuum advance, etc, but during searching saw many people posting to start from the beginning, set to comp tdc, ensure proper timing marks, remove dizzy cap, and well, here we are.

I'm nervous when it comes to these things and would rather take a little heat for something silly and just double confirm it before moving on. Appreciate the input!

-kiyoshi


mopar1.jpg
mopar2.jpg
mopar3.jpg
mopar4.jpg
 

1WildRT

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If it starts at all it's not 180 out.... But the other common screw up that will run but will be popping & farting like Chitty Chitty Bang Bang is to get the firing order/distributor rotation wrong.... Pay attention to the distributor rotation... The engine will run on two cylinders....

Screen Shot 2022-04-30 at 5.01.07 PM.png
 

Professor Fate

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Confirm either by compression or visually at the valvesprings that you're at TDC of the COMPRESSION stroke (remember, a 4 stroke engine goes to TDC twice in it's cycle).
 

Professor Fate

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Treed me, Pomona...!

OP, why did you orient the vacuum advance due north? It normally points east- if you installed your plug wires referenced to the vac can or the dist. clips, your order could be waaay off...
Double check your points setting- also, new replacement point sets and condensors are suspect.
 
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512Stroker

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Number one cylinder on the compression stroke, check by slowly rotating the engine with the valve cover off and watch the intake valve go al the way down and then all the way back up, now you should be close to TDC.
I actually set the balancer mark at 10* BTDC ( stock initial timing ) they start much easier.
Rotor can now be set to match up with number one terminal on the cap by rotating the distributor.
Lock it down you good to start.
 

George Jets

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Here is where the distributor should point to #1 on the distributor cap, and #1 cylinder up on compression stroke.

Cam dot at High Noon
Crank Dot at High Noon

Screenshot_20210603-092743_Gallery.jpg


Screenshot_20220430-203612_Gallery.jpg
 

kiyoshi

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Jesus christ you all are incredible.... just... thank you, so much. That was DAMN fast

I'll go ahead and read over and recheck everything including the information regarding how to properly check for compression with the valve cover removed!

Thank you so much again!

-kiyoshi
 

kiyoshi

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Treed me, Pomona...!

OP, why did you orient the vacuum advance due north? It normally points east- if you installed your plug wires referenced to the vac can or the dist. clips, your order could be waaay off...
Double check your points setting- also, new replacement point sets and condensors are suspect.

I WANT to say this is how it was originally oriented when I first purchased the car/ I also marked where it was before I took it out and put it right back on the mark. HOWEVER, there was plenty wrong or incorrectly done on this car when purchased so who knows how much that was worth to begin with

-kiyoshi
 

G70464

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Honestly that rotor is off by 100 degrees. Something is really not right here. The distributor is super advanced and the rotor it is pointing at #5.
Either the balancer is wrong,
piston is not at TDC,
the distributor gear spun (I am leaning towards this) or
timing gear is set up incorrectly..
 

cookietruck

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It could have an early harmonic balancer on it with later timing cover?

verify compression stroke number one and see if the timing mark on the balancer comes anywhere near close to where it should.
 

1WildRT

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If you want your plug wires to match the factory setup you need to verify the intermediate shaft is indexed correctly....

With #1 @ TDC on compression stroke pull the distributor & verify the slot in the intermediate shaft is aimed toward the front intake bolt on the drivers side....

Screen Shot 2022-04-30 at 7.46.17 PM.png
 

Ironracer

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If it starts at all it's not 180 out.... But the other common screw up that will run but will be popping & farting like Chitty Chitty Bang Bang is to get the firing order/distributor rotation wrong.... Pay attention to the distributor rotation... The engine will run on two cylinders....

View attachment 1715920463
I've seen em run 180° out. My Pals build 318 in a tin grille truck...down and dirty check, pull coil wire, put your finger in the #1, when I pops off, check damper.. verify location, ya need some advance. Pull distributor, if slot goes to above referenced location, drop er in, and run the firing order clockwise from there
 

Scody21

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You said you pulled the oil pump drive gear out correct? If this is not put back in correct you could be a tooth off. So when you put the Distro back in, the rotor pointer is pointing wrong at TDC. The motor could still run, but would run like ****. So best is to get back to TDC, pull the Distro and see where the slot is pointing on the oil pump gear and correct as necessary, the slot should be pointing to front of motor/ #1 as the rotor would be when the Distro would be…

I do have my Ratty 73 swinger running 180 out. Just move the wires on the cap… :lol:
 
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66fyssh

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Yes, go back to the beginning.

It's easier to rotate the engine with all plugs out. Follow directions above for finding top dead center on the compression stroke. Then see what cap Plug Wire Post Terminal the rotor is pointing to. That plug wire should be running to #1 cylinder (grill side driver's side). The next plug wire should run to #8 cylinder (firewall side passenger side) see diagram above. 18436572.

I'll say this. I bought a distributor to replace one that had a bent shaft. The distributor is "clocked" 90⁰ out from a "normal " distributor...in that the rotor is not in line with the slot in the intermediate shaft. It is 90⁰ off. I just pulled and rotated the intermediate shaft to set it correctly.
 

Rat Bastid

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Yes, go back to the beginning.

It's easier to rotate the engine with all plugs out. Follow directions above for finding top dead center on the compression stroke. Then see what cap Plug Wire Post Terminal the rotor is pointing to. That plug wire should be running to #1 cylinder (grill side driver's side). The next plug wire should run to #8 cylinder (firewall side passenger side) see diagram above. 18436572.

I'll say this. I bought a distributor to replace one that had a bent shaft. The distributor is "clocked" 90⁰ out from a "normal " distributor...in that the rotor is not in line with the slot in the intermediate shaft. It is 90⁰ off. I just pulled and rotated the intermediate shaft to set it correctly.


That’s right...not every distributor has the rotor lined up with the slot on the shaft. You have to turn the gear so the slot let’s the rotor point where you want it.

You can’t always go by the book.
 

AJ/FormS

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So when you put the Distro back in, the rotor pointer is pointing wrong at TDC. The motor could still run, but would run like ****.
Hang on man;
It doesn't actually matter where the rotor is pointing, as long as the tower above it is the one that you are using to find TDC-compression. For example; say you have put, for whatever reason, #3 piston at TDC-compression. After synching your reluctor or breaking the points, wherever the rotor is pointing, mark that on the outside of the housing and drop the cap back on. Now, whatever tower is nearest the mark will be your #3 cylinder, then just install the rest of the wires in sequence and it will run dandy-fine. At least to start,lol.
We only use #1 or #6 because the balancer is already marked, saving some work to find TDC-compression.
Also, where the slot in the drive gear is, matters not a whit. We only put it to a certain position to match the factory literature, so that when some mechanic stumbles on it in the future, that he won't trouble himself over why it not where it is "supposed" to be, and start messing with it. And, if you set it by the book, custom wires will be long enough for the furthest cylinders.
I mean you could do everything right and the rotor is still out of position because somebody welded the cam-plate on wrong.
I wouldn't lose a heartbeat over where what is so long as the #1 wire is synched to wherever the rotor is pointing, at TDC#1-Compression.
 

67Dart273

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^^READ the ABOVE^^

The reason that the dist is supposed to be "just so" and so on is so the factory assemblers can rinse, repeat, so the plug wires "lay nice," and so the tune up and other mechs "see what they expect"

ALSO REALIZE that some distributors do not have the drive tang oriented relative to the rotor the way some OEM ones "did."

There is TWO WAYS to determine compression.

1...If you are assembling the engine and have either rocker cover removed, rotate engine until timing marks come up to TDC and see whether No1 or no 6 both valves are closed. Whichever cylinder, THAT one is ready to fire, and that is where you point the rotor

2...The second method is remove no1 plug, and stick in your finger. Bump engine until you start to feel compression. When you do, wrench the engine up slow, watching for the "marks." Do NOT set the engine on TDC, but rather WHERE YOU WANT initial timing.

Drop the dist in with the vacuum can over on the pass side. You can either "make" no1 whichever tower the rotor happens to point to, or you can "walk" the dist drive gear up with a screwdriver and correct it. rotate the dist CW (retard) until the points are closed, then CCW (advance) slowly until the points just break. If breakerless, rotate until the reluctor is about in the center of the rotor

Now install the rest of the wires and start it up. As member Crackedback has pointed out, you can check timing "on the starter."
 

69cudaownr

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My vacuum faces exactly where Kiyoshi's does. Additionally, mine fired up at 180 degrees out. I know because I made that mistake. It would fire up but not continue running. Personally, I saw those pics as; Remove distributor, spin rotor 180 and replace, then start it and run.
I will add that his vacuum isn't quite where mine is but I'm running 14 degrees advanced whereas his distributor looks to be at 0.
 

Scody21

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Hang on man;
It doesn't actually matter where the rotor is pointing, as long as the tower above it is the one that you are using to find TDC-compression. For example; say you have put, for whatever reason, #3 piston at TDC-compression. After synching your reluctor or breaking the points, wherever the rotor is pointing, mark that on the outside of the housing and drop the cap back on. Now, whatever tower is nearest the mark will be your #3 cylinder, then just install the rest of the wires in sequence and it will run dandy-fine. At least to start,lol.
We only use #1 or #6 because the balancer is already marked, saving some work to find TDC-compression.
Also, where the slot in the drive gear is, matters not a whit. We only put it to a certain position to match the factory literature, so that when some mechanic stumbles on it in the future, that he won't trouble himself over why it not where it is "supposed" to be, and start messing with it. And, if you set it by the book, custom wires will be long enough for the furthest cylinders.
I mean you could do everything right and the rotor is still out of position because somebody welded the cam-plate on wrong.
I wouldn't lose a heartbeat over where what is so long as the #1 wire is synched to wherever the rotor is pointing, at TDC#1-Compression.

Was trying to keep it simple Man. Sometime too much info too soon is bad news bears…:poke:
 

crackedback

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That’s right...not every distributor has the rotor lined up with the slot on the shaft. You have to turn the gear so the slot let’s the rotor point where you want it.

You can’t always go by the book.

100% correct on the rotor to drive tang orientation/alignment. MSD don't always line up using the book procedure.

Spin the oil pump drive to get your rotor to the correct orientation
 
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