LA small block,Do you put an oil passage in your head stud?

What do you do for oiling to rockers with head studs

  • Nothing run them dry

    Votes: 3 33.3%
  • Sprayers in covers

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Open the passage

    Votes: 4 44.4%
  • Modify the head stud

    Votes: 2 22.2%

  • Total voters
    9
  • Poll closed .

RustyRatRod

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My son owns an engine shop now at age 37 . around 17 years ago we had our engines built at other shops. HTA- Dave and Ray Barton Racing- Ray and Dave. They are who I refer to that did our work .

We have our 428 and 416 engines a long time. Way before we had a our machine shop. My son now does all studs used on the LA engines in his machine shop on our property this way. This idea was thought of by several of us years ago. I'm am sorry if I confused your "brain" I just thought you and many would have known my son was very young when we first built this car . But he had input on the original build once I gave it to him at 16 yrs old.

I am not upset at all. Seems like you are the one that is having a brain fart. Because you have to constantly doubt everything you know nothing about. Instead of asking for an understanding of who is who, You just take things out of context and assume things.

Now that I had to explain to you who the Dave's and Ray are .Is your brain gaining any knowledge. And when I stated somewhere above that those with different methods that work . I would like them to post them. I am sure many do different things

This is what "we" do. and it is what works the best for my son for liability with the fix for this issue. Really! if you want to Chisel a grove in your head or your stud. Or run it without any oil at all that is your business. Don't confuse your self with things you don't agree with or understand. Friendly input deserves a respectful answer. Input like yours is just someone looking to swell their head. My Dad always said . If they can't Dazzle you with brilliance they'll baffle you with bullshit . He must have been referring to you.
I don't get angry. I just laugh at people like you.

Now write another story about who I am. I have nothing better to do but write a reply. And I love it.

Here is a picture of him at 17 and the car. and as it progressed in 20 years .

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Tell your son I said "nice titties". LOL

I really don't understand this thread. We have a member with great resources and obviously a great deal of experience showing everybody how "they" handle an issue that they think should be addressed, Seems like sharing of information to me and that's what this site is all about, right? If you don't want to do the mod, don't do it. It's pretty simple. There's really no need to bash the guy simply because it's not something you wanna do. Just don't do it and your problem is solved.
 

RustyRatRod

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Hard to beat this site. We learned something that someone may need and there’s all this free entertainment too. Just remember most of us are Mopar loving guys and I’m betting 99 out of 100 times if we met each other at the track or car show we would laugh, have a beer or Pepsi, and be lifelong friends. Love you guys.
This ^^^^^

I can honestly say I don't think I would refuse a beer with any of yall. And I don't drink beer much anymore. Maybe a shot of Fireball.
 

12many

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I really don't understand this thread.
In my case I guess I just don’t understand pompousness or arrogance. There are a few on here, everyone pretty much knows who they are, sort of the elephant in the room that is pretty much just accepted or tolerated as if it’s normal. If the OP had included in the poll the option to choose “have plenty of oil”, “no problems” or to that effect Ida just voted that way and made my initial post like I did with the last abbreviated bit “YRMV” (as I clearly did) and been done. Maybe you and 99.9% of the viewers here like to suffer arrogant/pompous people. I don’t. I discovered (reevaluated) the “ignore” button. Problem solved. And, it works both ways obviously. Everyone can be nice and happy :thumbsup:

I’m outta here:eek:
 

RustyRatRod

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In my case I guess I just don’t understand pompousness or arrogance. There are a few on here, everyone pretty much knows who they are, sort of the elephant in the room that is pretty much just accepted or tolerated as if it’s normal. If the OP had included in the poll the option to choose “have plenty of oil”, “no problems” or to that effect Ida just voted that way and made my initial post like I did with the last abbreviated bit “YRMV” (as I clearly did) and been done. Maybe you and 99.9% of the viewers here like to suffer arrogant/pompous people. I don’t. I discovered (reevaluated) the “ignore” button. Problem solved. And, it works both ways obviously. Everyone can be nice and happy :thumbsup:

I’m outta here:eek:
I agree.....but I myself am full of flaws too, so I try to overlook those that others have.
 

James Clews

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Maybe there is something that I do not understand but I didn't know there was an oil gallery comming up from the head bolts. I know small blocks have an oil passage on each side that goes to the bolt hole in the rocker shafts but head bolts have got me stuffed so please explain something that I have never been aware off!
 

justinp61

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Depending on which side there is an oil feed port coming from the #2 and #4 cam journal, it goes up to the deck of the block, there is a corresponding port in the head. That port intersects a head bolt hole, the oil travels up and around the head bolt to a port in the rocker stand that feeds oil to the rockers.
 

rumblefish360

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Just remember most of us are Mopar loving guys and I’m betting 99 out of 100 times if we met each other at the track or car show we would laugh, have a beer or Pepsi, and be lifelong friends. Love you guys.

I agree. 99% of us would have a great time together and enjoy the day. The hardest part of the internet is reading text often taken the wrong way. When reading the text, most insert a feeling, attitude, etc… that’s not me t by the poster. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn’t. But you don’t always know for sure.

With some people, you can trade despicable insulting barbs and laugh it off as play time while other freak out over your choice of spark plugs.

The worst is misreading followed by assumption.
 

pittsburghracer

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I agree. 99% of us would have a great time together and enjoy the day. The hardest part of the internet is reading text often taken the wrong way. When reading the text, most insert a feeling, attitude, etc… that’s not me t by the poster. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn’t. But you don’t always know for sure.

With some people, you can trade despicable insulting barbs and laugh it off as play time while other freak out over your choice of spark plugs.

The worst is misreading followed by assumption.


My problem is I like to joke around and have fun. We did it daily in the mill and sometimes even face to face it crossed the line. But there is could be handled easily and often was, but then it’s over. One guy on here crossed the line with me but all you can do here is ignore him. I try hard not to post on every question because then others set back and won’t put there input in. This is our website, our tech, and sometimes our grieving website. But to me it’s become the best Mopar website. Have a great day.
 

Ivan Baez

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I use a melling high volume pump on my 426 SB stroker, no mods to the oil passages, Edelbrock aluminum heads. 3 years using it and no issues so far, plenty of oil flow.
 

rumblefish360

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Some blocks are blessed with oil passages already at or near & sometimes exceeding the MP recommendation sizes. I had a 318 spin reliably to 6800 for a long time without issues.
 

Bakerlite

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When Chrysler went racing, they built a dedicated engine for it. The rest is just catch up.
 

Ivan Baez

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this is how it looks

WhatsApp Image 2022-05-05 at 8.40.00 PM.jpeg
 

Col_Steve

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I very much enjoy the free exchange of information here, while I very much more dislike how so many of these threads turn into a pissing match via the input of a very few individuals (the usual suspects) who clearly dislike each other. Perhaps those few individuals would be better served by joining a different forum more attuned to caustic remarks unrelated to fine old mopars. Then the rest of us might carry on with our hobby/obsession here peaceably and constructively through friendly conversation.
Back to the subject: .010" clearance around the #2 and #4 bolt positions is more than ample for oiling any rocker arm system when grooved cam bearings are utilized. I personally prefer to turn those two cam bearings out of alignment with the block holes and re-drill the bottom center main galley hole so the cam gets oil but the rockers don't get any from there. Then I drill through the blocks #2 and #4 rocker feed gallerys into the lifter oil galley, then plug the valley side of the hole with a loctited 1/4-20 allen screw. This simple mod provides full time oiling to the rockers without compromising oil flow to the affected rod bearings. Then tap the galley hole at the deck surface and install another 1/4-20 allen set screw that has been drilled through to .040" which is a plenty big orifice to full time supply any style of rocker arms. The area of a .040" orifice is only .001257 sq.in. The area of a gap of .010 around a half inch bolt/stud is .031 sq.in. The area of a gap of .005" around a half inch stud is .016 sq.in. which is still 12 times larger than necessary. It would be a highly unusual situation where a stud would have enough elbow room to be easily installed and not have at least .005" clearance inside the hole in the head for ample oil flow. Now if you are counting on the intermittent squirts from the stock oiling system perhaps there is a "problem" when studs are used. But the worst problem with the stock system is the intermittent dramatic drop in oil pressure to #2 and 3 and #6 and 7 rod bearings (near zero). The simple to do modification described above cures that problem AND the rocker arm oiling problem for the grand total of $1.00 for the 4 set screws. The head stud simply isn't the problem.
 

Bakerlite

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Perhaps those few individuals would be better served by joining a different forum more attuned to caustic remarks unrelated to fine old mopars. Then the rest of us might carry on with our hobby/obsession here peaceably and constructively through friendly conversation.
Information is still information, whether it comes from a heated discussion or served up on a tray of fairy floss..
 

Oldmanmopar

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I’ve turned my junk 8k plus and I never ever did that to a stud. It doesn’t need it.

As I posted, you are feeding the leaks at the rockers and the oil that gets to the adjusters. I suppose if you have .050 clearance between the rockers and .008 clearance on the shaft you might have an issue with getting oil past the studs.

I have never seen it.
Maybe that is why you call them junk.
 

Oldmanmopar

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The answer seems rather obvious to me & it would not be to notch a fastener & create a failure point. Enlarge the current hole in the head by 0.010". The hole is already larger than 0.5" to allow for stud/bolt clearance, but not knowing the actual OD, I used 1/2" [ 0.500"] as a reference. Going from 0.500 to 0.510" creates a gap increase equivalent to a 0.072" hole. Since the starting point is greater than 0.500", the hole size it creates will be considerably larger.
wonder why they narrowed the bolts from the factory? And ARP bolts were narrowed. Also indy suggested spray bars for oiling our engine when using studs . Or run oil lines into the back of the head.
 

Bakerlite

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Why don't they (ARP) offer a narrowed stud? Considering anyone using them is obviously working the engine harder..
 

Oldmanmopar

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Thats a little one
Why don't they (ARP) offer a narrowed stud? Considering anyone using them is obviously working the engine harder..
1/2 studs are all the same they just pull the various lengths for a specific engine. We had the same question when Dave called them for advise. They said they provide the fasteners other issues are the builders responsibility. They said there are several ways to address this issue and it is up to the builder to resolve it. Any advise would make them liable. They did say the weak point of the stud was the base of the 1/2-13 thread that I remember was relayed to me . The shaft is almost double the strength. The threads are rolled not cut.
 

Bakerlite

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Kit #: 134-3601 Chev Small block.
These are narrowed to like the SBM they sell..
I don't think they had the oiling issue in mind when they made the bolt. Probably just used a design they already had or just copied what the factory used for legal reasons (as they put it).
 

replicaracer43

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Thats a little one

1/2 studs are all the same they just pull the various lengths for a specific engine. We had the same question when Dave called them for advise. They said they provide the fasteners other issues are the builders responsibility. They said there are several ways to address this issue and it is up to the builder to resolve it. Any advise would make them liable. They did say the weak point of the stud was the base of the 1/2-13 thread that I remember was relayed to me . The shaft is almost double the strength. The threads are rolled not cut.
The way bolts, and studs are designed, they have "stretch" that's what allows them to hold tension. That stretch happens in the "beam" area, NOT the threads. Same principle as torque to yield bolts, they dont fail in the thread area unless you damage the threads. Your "solution" is not needed on 99.9% of the high performance builds being done currently.
 

Oldmanmopar

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I went to the shop and was talking to my son about this thread. He said he saw some of you mentioned other engines and referred to them as an explanation for restrictors. So he was explaining to me some of the oiling. Now I may not have some things correct but this is how I understood things

Ford FE the cam gets the oil 1st and splits to the mains and rockers. They restrict the rockers so the mains get more oil first.

Chevy restricts the rockers with the pushrods.

Big block mopar
drill holes into through the oil passages into the oil galley from the passage to the head and install set screws set in each passage to seal the open end of the hole you drilled. Reclock number 4 cam bearing to cover oil feeds to head and drill new hole to feed the main bearing passage. Use full grove main bearings. this will supply oiling to the mains and rods on both sides.This will also provide full time oiling to the heads leading to the rockers. This has been covered on this site before Many times


Small block mopar he said many things have been tried over the years like the tube from bank to bank blocking of the feed from number one main. He won't do that. He does other mods basically the same as the big block. but if studded he always mills a groove in the studs. This provides positive direct feed .

He mentioned about the post above from Col_Steve He said that oiling mod is the correct way .

The one thing he doesn't like is depending on the circumference of the stud clearance for oil. The oil feeds are on the one side of the stud . You can never say for sure that the stud has .010 around the complete stud What if the stud is off center in the hole .020 on one side and and tight on that side and seals off the feed holes . Once the head is in place you cannot tell how close it is to that side. Why build pressure around the stud. Did you all ever see how hot a restricted oil valve gets. Think of the heat from pressure and flow next to the stud. I'll stay with the grove in the stud.


Most Modified nascar and sprint car Engines have spray bars in the covers Just to cool the springs.. Helps prevent spring damage if you keep them cool.

My son is on this site. He doesn't post much I do that. He just reads some of the threads.
 
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Oldmanmopar

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Kit #: 134-3601 Chev Small block.
These are narrowed to like the SBM they sell..
I don't think they had the oiling issue in mind when they made the bolt. Probably just used a design they already had or just copied what the factory used for legal reasons (as they put it).

Chevy threads are 7/16 how much more can you taper them down. Your not thinking with your dip stick jimmy.

 

Rat Bastid

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I went to the shop and was talking to my son about this thread. He said he saw some of you mentioned other engines and referred to them as an explanation for restrictors. So he was explaining to me some of the oiling. Now I may not have some things correct but this is how I understood things

Ford FE the cam gets the oil 1st and splits to the mains and rockers. They restrict the rockers so the mains get more oil first.

Chevy restricts the rockers with the pushrods.

Big block mopar
drill holes into through the oil passages into the oil galley from the passage to the head and install set screws set in each passage to seal the open end of the hole you drilled. Reclock number 4 cam bearing to cover oil feeds to head and drill new hole to feed the main bearing passage. Use full grove main bearings. this will supply oiling to the mains and rods on both sides.This will also provide full time oiling to the heads leading to the rockers. This has been covered on this site before . Many times
Small block mopar he said many things have been tried over the years like the tube from bank to bank blocking of the feed from number one main. He won't do that. He does other mods basically the same as the big block. but if studded he always mills a groove in the studs. This provides positive direct feed .

He mentioned about the post above from Col_Steve He said that oiling mod is the correct way .

The one thing he doesn't like is depending on the circumference of the stud clearance for oil. The oil feeds are on the one side of the stud . You can never say for sure that the stud has .010 around the complete stud What if the stud is off center in the hole .020 on one side and and tight on that side and seals off the feed holes . Once the head is in place you cannot tell how close it is to that side. Why build pressure around the stud. Did you all ever see how hot a restricted oil valve gets. Think of the heat from pressure and flow next to the stud. I'll stay with the grove in the stud.


Most Modified nascar and sprint car Engines have spray bars in the covers Just to cool the springs.. Helps prevent spring damage if you keep them cool.

My son is on this site. He doesn't post much I do that. He just reads some of the threads.


If I’m getting what Col Steve is saying, and he can correct me if I’m wrong...all he is doing is moving the feed to the rockers from the feed up from the mains by blocking the hole with the cam bearing and picking the oil up from the lifter gallery.

There is nothing wrong with that, except you are oiling rockers with the oil going to the mains before it gets there. As it is OE, the oil going to the rockers has to at least go to the mains and rods on the way up to the rockers. The OE way only pulls oil off the number 2 and 4 mains, where his way is pulling the oil off all the mains.

I have looked at this at length years ago, but not of a concern for rocker oiling. I didn’t do it, because it still takes oil from the mains. That was when I externally oiled the shafts. In the end that was a giant PITA and not worth the hassles.

I have been looking at other ways to not pull oil from either the mains or before the mains. That would mean any oil going to the mains and rods would have to get their first and the only leaks after the mains would be the leaks at the cam bearings.

I’m not sure how I will do it, but at this point I only see 2 ways to do it. One requires a bulkhead fitting and a couple of hoses and the other requires some hoses off the oil pressure feed port.

I have to consider if it’s even worth the effort, but IMO any time you can feed the rockers with oil that didn’t come off those two mains alone that’s a better way to do it. Not for the sake of the rockers but for the sake of the main and rod bearings.
 

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