LCA sits on bump stops?

Suspension, Steering and Chassis

  1. Cope

    Cope Fusing with fire

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    Hi guys, I need some help.
    I just finished rebuilding the passanger side front end of my 71 318 Dart and I cant figure out where I went wrong?

    All new ball joints, bushings and bearings. I set the car on the ground and tightened it up then went to adjust ride height using the A B subtraction method and my number is 1/4 inch, Not the 2 1/2 + - 1/8 im looking for.

    I pulled the torsion bar and the UCA bump stop, pulled the assembly down, pushed adjuster blade down and slid the torsion bar back in.

    set the car down and started tighting the adjuster bolt and still the same issue. with the bolt sucked into the LCA im still sitting on the LCA bump stop...


    I got no one around to look and see if the torsion bar mount has let go but I think I would.see that easy?

    What are the odds that my bars are just fully shot or do u think I went wrong somewhere else?


    Thanks for the time and advice.
     
  2. 1967formulaS

    1967formulaS Well-Known Member

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    Hi Mate, I recently completed my front end so its pretty fresh in my head, but correct me if i miss something.

    Just make sure the LCA nut is loose first otherwise you will destroy the rubber bush. Also removing the front shocks will give you a little more sag than you would expect..

    Put car on Jack stands , loosen LCA nut, remove UCA bump stops, remove front wheels and shocks, loosen adjuster nut so just the rounded edge is just visible, slide torsion bars back in. If the hex location is slightly out, get someone to put downward pressure on the brake hub and slide torsion bar into its location, (if you have new LCA bushes you may need to tap the blade/adjuster tab down a little so its bottomed out, Slide the torsion rubber to its location and put the torsion bar clip back on, Re-install shocks, UCA bump stops.

    Lower car on the ground and adjust ride height. Once ride height is achieved, then give it a few bounces and push her back and forwards a couple of times. re check ride height and once a happy camper, tighten everything up to spec. Re check it again once its all tight.

    Hope this helps..
     
  3. Cope

    Cope Fusing with fire

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    Thanks for the reply.

    That is my issue, I thought I my have screwed up installing the torsion bar the first time round so I pit her back on stands and did just like your post.

    Same issue, LCA wont move away off bumbstop.

    LCA bushing is polly.

    I never thought to check ride height before teardown, but the car dose not appear to be sitting 2 1/4 lower in the front. I think this may have been a pre existing issue to front end tear down?

    Driver side has not been torn appart yet. its bumb stop is missing on the LCA but it looks very much like the side I jist "repaired"....

    Thanks again for your time and help.
     
  4. moparlover

    moparlover Well-Known Member

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  5. Cope

    Cope Fusing with fire

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    Thanks for the download.
    I believe that the torsion bars are installed per spec.

    With only one side having been appart I thinking that I have been driving this car for a few years with zero travel in the front suspension.

    When sitting on level ground the passanger side dose not appear 2 1/4" lower than the driver side.

    The car also dose not look to be sitting 2 1/4" lower than before passanger side teardown.


    Is it possible that my torsion bars are just completely past their life span?
    this car looks to have had zero maintenance after 1971.

    Thanks again.
     
  6. 70aarcuda

    70aarcuda Master Hoader of SBM FABO Gold Member

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    check to make sure the adjuster bolt and adjuster is not stripped...

    is the adjuster installed correctly...is the bolt engaging the LCA correctly....

    look at the passenger side...see how much of the bolt is on the outside of the adjuster...
     
  7. Cope

    Cope Fusing with fire

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    adjuster bolt is not stripped. I fully removed cleaned antiseized and reinstalled. It also dose get harder to turn as it sinks into the LCA.

    To the best of my knowledge the adjuster "nut" is installed correcty.

    Adjusting bolt is seated in the torsion bar adjusting blade socket.

    The driverside has not been dissambeled but is missing its LCA bump stop. It looks to my eye that the new bump stop will not fit on the driverside. (LCA on driver side also to close to subframe)

    Setting adjuster bolts to the driverside amout sticking out of adjustment nut gets the same result on both driver and passanger sides. ( LCA way to close to the subframe)

    Thanks again.
     
  8. Cope

    Cope Fusing with fire

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    May hap this will shed some light on my problem?

    Passanger side.
    Note LCA bump stop contacting subframe.
    [​IMG]

    Driver side.
    Note distance from LCA to subframe. ( about the distance of LCA bump stop? )
    [​IMG]

    Thanks again for your time and advice.
     
  9. Robbie2734

    Robbie2734 Lambcharger

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    Turn your bumpstop 90*, it's supposed to be parallel to the frame and contact the bracket welded to the side of the frame.
     
  10. Robbie2734

    Robbie2734 Lambcharger

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    Here is a picture of the correct placement
     

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  11. Cope

    Cope Fusing with fire

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    Ok thanks. With the other one missing I was unsure of its orientation.

    I do have doubts about the orientation of the bump stop fixing this issue. ( Thank you and it will be turned around first thing in the AM. )


    EDIT Dam that is a fine upskirt shot. I bet she sounds great when you put the hurt down?
     
  12. Robbie2734

    Robbie2734 Lambcharger

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    That's not mine, it was the best shot I could find of the setup.
     
  13. Cope

    Cope Fusing with fire

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    Driverside bump stop removed. Note how similar the gap between the LCA and subframe is to passanger side pick.
    [​IMG]


    Driver side bumb stop reinstalled, This did give me around a quarter inch.
    [​IMG]

    Im gonna take a close look at the rear torsion bar mount but I dont thint that is the problem?

    I would like to avoid buying new T bars if I just have something screwy going on.

    If I scratch my head anymore over this Im gonna go bald.....
    Thanks for any and all ideas.
     
  14. BillGrissom

    BillGrissom Well-Known Member

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    In your post #8, I can see the adjustment bolt head sitting well below the bottom of the LCA. I know it can go flush and even 1/4" more, so you aren't anywhere near max adjustment. If turning it doesn't raise the height, you are turning it at stripped threads. I always lift the frame up a bit when adjusting the T-bars to avoid stripping the bolt. You can buy new adjustment bolts, but yours is probably salvageable since you need it in a lot more, so just raise the frame and screw it in to get unmolested threads on the bolt, and adjust only with weight off the T-bar.

    If above is totally bogus for some reason, another possibility is that you have after-market T-bars and some of those are clocked different so you can't get factory height. Doesn't matter since they are so stiff you won't hit the bump stops anyway. Your teeth serve to absorb the bumps with those.

    Let us know the result since helps everyone here. If you are a kid, don't worry about taking flak from these geezers. We were all dumF kids once.
     
  15. 69MOPE

    69MOPE Well-Known Member

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    I think your one flat off. You should have some resistance getting the ball joints in place even with the adjuster all the way out.
     
  16. Cope

    Cope Fusing with fire

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    Thanks for the reply Bill.
    In post #8 I had backed the head of the adjuster into camera frame.so folks could see that it and the nut were in fact cleaned, inspected and antisezied.

    At this point im willing to try any thing. I will fully remove adjuster nut and reinspect it and the bolt.

    Now with the clocking u may have something there. Im almpst certain that these are the bars that were installed in 71. When I did the front end I did not remove the T bar just slid it back and removed the LCA. Is it possible that when I reinstalled the bar I turned it or "clocked it" and installed it wrong? How to tell if its clocked wrong?

    if so why are both sides so similar?

    I would like to get some room between the bump stop and frame if for nothing else than better tire wear.

    69mope can you explain that a little bit more. I think you guys could be on to something.

    Thanks again.
     
  17. BillGrissom

    BillGrissom Well-Known Member

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    No, you don't normally get more angle by clocking the T-bar on a different flat, nor by turning it around (fwd-aft). What post #15 meant was that you might be able to get it in the next position of the adjuster, i.e. the clocking between the rear hex anchor and the front adjuster. To try, remove the bumper on your UCA so you can drop the LCA down a bit more, and fully back off the adjuster. You might even have to unbolt the UCA.

    I once got the T-bars in my 69 Dart in like that (just barely). Then the front end sat a bit too high, but eventually settled to perfect. I later found that I had inadvertently swapped L & R T-bars (was young then, and no internet). I had reversed the sag they had taken. People say they will eventually snap if you do that, but I drove the car like that for another 4 years until it was stolen. It would be good if it snapped on the car thieves. Never found the car, just the license plate turned up 7 yrs later on a stolen Jetta in Cobb County, GA.
     
  18. Cope

    Cope Fusing with fire

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    Thanks for clearing that up.
    I did remove the upper bump stop when I installed the T bar but romoving the upper A arm cam bolts or balljoint just may get me to the next flat.

    Maybe the third time really is a charm....

    Back on the stands She goes.
     
  19. burdar

    burdar Owen's Dad

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    With the suspension hanging all the way down, the bar should basically line itself up with the LCA. Sometimes you have to remove the UCA bump stop so the suspension will drop another inch or so.

    Also have a look at the torsion bar x-member. Make sure the welds on the torsion bar socket haven't come loose from the frame.

    When you do your adjusting, do it with the car on stands. Don't turn the adjuster while the weight of the car is on the suspension. The only thing holding the car up is that bolt. If it fails, the car will land on you.
     
  20. Cope

    Cope Fusing with fire

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    Mr. Grissom I owe you an apology.

    Your post #14 was entirely correct.
    I just could not see how turning the adjustment bolt that last 3/4s of an inch was gonna get me 2 1/4 inches. After thought I realised twisting that large solid bar any should result in serious torsion.

    I lifted her back up turned in the adjustment screw almost till botteming out and low and behold when I set her down I thought the jack was stuck up..
    Not only did it raise the passanger side to dang near where I want it (it may be to high havent pulled a tape yet) but it lifted the driverside almost as much.

    Now I think Im gonna lay underneath and work both bolts back to a new "even", decide where I want my contact patch and see if I can get a half decent alignment on the passanger side.

    Then tear the driver side appart and hope it takes days instead of weeks.....

    Thank you Thank you thank you!
     
  21. gdrill

    gdrill OK, now what??? Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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    Your adjuster bolt appears to still be hanging below the control arm. Notice Robbie's is adjusted up inside the arm. Your car must sit quite low in front?

    Doh.... I see it now missed the later posts
     
  22. 74DartSwinger360

    74DartSwinger360 The Brat Pack

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    You must roll it back and forth to let the suspension settle since you had it up in the air.
    Then Measure
     
  23. Cope

    Cope Fusing with fire

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    Yup thanks.
    My new A B Numbers are now 2.50 but I think Im gonna shoot for 2.25-2.00 to try and achieve the negative camber im looking for.

    The Ride height is off about 1/2 inch side to side but I dont think it a huge problem a Im still rebuild the driver side and do a final reset and give her a good alignment.

    Thank you all so much.
    MOPAR or NO car takes on a new meaning when you cant drive to work...
     
  24. BillGrissom

    BillGrissom Well-Known Member

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    No apology needed. We are sitting on our tush'es throwing barbs while you do all the work.

    I suggest driving it a mile before working hard on alignment, though do get toe-in close first (tape measure aft-fwd on front wheels track, or just sight along a 2x4). After installing T-bars in my 65 Newport, I re-checked after a drive around the block and found it had settled quite a bit (grease squeezing out?). I re-adjusted, repeated, then tightened the LCA bolts and adjusted alignment (at home). Ride height affects toe-in, so get the height correct first.
     
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