Lost my fire 440 67 dodge

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mopar44067b

mopar44067b

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hey everyone. i am from bbodys only but was reading up on abodys so i am sure ya'll can help. Problem started with flat battery so i had it tested and it ok not the best because of its age from 2013.
3rd voltage reg on it as original failed and 2nd one also fail test after what appeared to be overcharging and burnt fuselink on starter relay.

so now with 3rd one on and fuselink replaced i got no fire. i tested with test light on ballast and have power to 3 of the 4 terminals in run position with key on. do i need power to 4th one which is top one on passenger side..
post from bbodys ..........after new volt reg and a volt gage install took 67 out all was ok been watchen volt gage charging very high like 17 plus when at 55 . but with a load test using all electrical function on car volts drop to 13. .5 ............... so i smealded smoke the bad kind wires burning up so link is fried and put new one on bypass but not starting lost fire somewhere thinking the coil and in did not get to check ballast yet. i got no helper go figure that.


i am thinking a bad alternator this one is brand new from napa lifetime the sunpro volt gage was telling me thing are to high. voltage reg is brand new one too. i hate to pull alternator so damn heavy . i am lookin at wheelchairs their very costly and i perfer getin dodge runin over a new wheeler.
 
Run a ground wire from engine to mounting bolt of regulator, a new regulator preferably 1st off.
 
Verify a good ground from the battery to the engine block and to the body.
 
You post is a bit hard to follow.

When you say "no fire" you mean no spark?

One thing you need to do when referencing voltage readings is to reference the reading to a specific wire or terminal in the FACTORY diagram

You can download one of those FREE over at MyMopar.com

Next some random causes of overcharging.............

If you have replaced the alternator with an isolated field (70 or later has TWO brush/ field connections) it is a popular screw up on the part of the rebuilder to GROUND one of the two which should not be. Using the later regulator, this causes "full tilt" charging or a short depending on which field you connect to

Another cause of overcharging is actually a voltage drop. Poor connections or a bad ignition switch DROPS the voltage to the regulator IGN terminal "which then thinks" the battery is low, and OVER charges until the voltage at that low point comes up to the regulator set point of 14V nominal. This means the battery is actually OVER voltage

Also you may have more than one problem. Did you see smoke or smell melting plastic? Might have some conductors cross-connected/ welded together in the harness
 

Troubleshooting the breakerless ignition is complicated by the fact that newer ECU's are "4 pin" whether they actually have 4 or 5 pins. The 5th is not connected

So if you ACTUALLY have a "real" (older) 5 pin ECU you MUST USE a 4 pin resistor

But if you have a newer 4 pin ECU you can use EITHER a 2 or 4 pin resistor.......the other half is simply not used

Here are simplified diagrams from MyMopar. The key to orienting the 4 pin resistor is the "U" shaped cutout. NOTICE that the ballast resistor for the COIL is exactly the same as it always ways just like points. That is, power from the key, through the ballast, to the coil.

The older 5 pin ECU

Ignition_System_5pin.jpg


The newer 4 pin ECU

Ignition_System_4pin.jpg
 
This thread here may or may not be some help

cranks but no spark at coil

See if this works. GAWD I "love" the "new improved" software

Here's a post I made about the simplest way I know to get across testing the ECU/ ignition parts

You need a coil, the ECU and the distributor

Lay it out on the bench. Follow the diagram. Find the two distributor pickup terminals on the ECU. Hook them to the distributor

Hook the ECU case to battery NEG

Coil does NOT need grounded

Distributor does NOT need grounded.

Hook coil + to the power lead terminal on the ECU. Get a clip lead hooked there and let dangle. This is your battery "hot" when you are ready

Hook something from coil "case" to a probe for testing spark.

Hook up your power clip lead. Twist the distributor shaft while holding the test probe near the coil tower. The thing should make sparks

If not, unhook distributor. Take first one, then the other pickup clip leads, and "tap tap" ground them at the battery connection. Coil should make 1 spark each time you do so.

If not, try another coil. If that does not fix it replace the ECU

IF you hook it all up and it WORKS, then there is something AFU in the car harness. SUSPECT a bad ECU connector OR a bad DISTRIBUTOR connector
=============================================
This is all you need to test the basics of the ignition. You can easily test the ballast separate. A battery, the ECU, distributor and a coil, and of course some test leads

2ai0wsj-jpg.jpg


Below, the basic diagram for a 4 pin ECU

166lmj7-jpg.jpg


Below, the wire for testing spark. I use my 12V test light. No, LOL the spark won't blow up the bulb

166lmj7-jpg.jpg


Below, the ground connection. ALL you need is one wire from batt NEG to the ECU case

xawjl-jpg.jpg


Below, the two distributor connections. In the car these are polarity sensitive, but for testing does not matter

b3opvm-jpg.jpg


Below, the coil NEG connection

6jfywp-jpg.jpg


Below, battery PLUS connection, one wire to this terminal of ECU and jumpered over to + side of coil


11lqu5l-jpg.jpg


Below, all hooked up and ready to test (except for battery ground). Should produce sparks at least 3/8" and typically 1/2" long

1zzoya0-jpg.jpg


Below, distributor "one wire" test. I have removed the other distributor wire for simplicity. Take the bare connector end or this clip lead (the yellow) and with everything hooked up, ground it repeatedly. Each grounding should result in a spark (In this photo you need to hook up the ECU ground wire, I left it off for the photo)

vgitld-jpg.jpg
 
OK SO WHY WON'T THE PHOTOS WORK?????

EDIT GAWD I LOVE (no I don't) the new "improved" software!!!!
 
hey
thanks and sorry about tread being hard to read been pulling my hair out so i'll try do better.
the first thing i got was a new alternator but i was getting sold a 67 one wire field and i know thats wrong (these parts ppl all start with year make and model when they help you or not help you in most cases.)so i went to napa and got a 1973 alternator for dodge coronet 440 engine two wire field....put it on and it was not charging over 12.5 so i had voltage tested and it failed. so got new one and it was overcharging and burnt up my bypass to fuselink on starter rely . took it back after i had it tested and it too was bad . it failed set point . and now i got no fire or spark
and to be clear i have a 5 pin box with 5 pin harness. and i have 4 terminal ballast res. i used diagram just like you have in pics and all same stock ignition parts like you have i other pics. i do have voltage on 3 places on the ballast.......................................i tryed 4 pin box and a different coil i keep i the trunk still no spark.
i was hoping to fix it without finding a mechanic this car has had some issues since i got it like bad gas tank with powder rust in it took forever to find trouble . and lots of loose stuff all over the car. the builder was not that good.
all help is greatly appreciated and might help keep some money in my wallet.


67Dart273 said:
You post is a bit hard to follow.

When you say "no fire" you mean no spark?

One thing you need to do when referencing voltage readings is to reference the reading to a specific wire or terminal in the FACTORY diagram

You can download one of those FREE over at MyMopar.com

Next some random causes of overcharging.............

If you have replaced the alternator with an isolated field (70 or later has TWO brush/ field connections) it is a popular screw up on the part of the rebuilder to GROUND one of the two which should not be. Using the later regulator, this causes "full tilt" charging or a short depending on which field you connect to

Another cause of overcharging is actually a voltage drop. Poor connections or a bad ignition switch DROPS the voltage to the regulator IGN terminal "which then thinks" the battery is low, and OVER charges until the voltage at that low point comes up to the regulator set point of 14V nominal. This means the battery is actually OVER voltage

Also you may have more than one problem. Did you see smoke or smell melting plastic? Might have some conductors cross-connected/ welded together in the harness
Click to expand...
 
OK........on the alternator.........you are using the 70 and later "flat" electronic VR? Like this?

312-P3690731.jpg


The big WARNING about the isolated field (late) alternators is that more and more of them "seem to be" showing up in stores WITH ONE BRUSH GROUNDED which of course is improper. You MUST check continuity on them.........The field terminals should have continuity from terminal to terminal but should NOT have continuity TO GROUND. "I bet" this is part of the cause of your wiring problems
 
In the case of your ignition at this point most likely is welded/ melted wiring in the harness. Try following the procedure I layed out above......try to find a spare box connector or else "carefully" use clip leads and just wire it up and test it "on the bench."

A few other thoughts:
Might be unlikely here, but check the proper reluctor gap. Also you can hook a multimeter to the distributor connector on low AC volts and spin it.......should generate about 1V AC

Check the reluctor / pickup for rust/ debri/ and damage. SUSPECT the distributor connector.......those are trouble

Make CERTAIN the ECU is actually well grounded. They MUST be grounded to operate (same for VR)

You can "tap" the bare end of the engine harness end of the distributor connector to ground and the system should make one "pop" spark each time.

If you get this fixed and the voltage still runs "somewhat high" say between 14.8----16V it is likely to be "harness voltage drop" but sounds like you have a lot to do first

I would be slicing open the harness up around the alternator---fuse link---bulkhead---and ignition----and inspecting it wire by wire for meltage.
 
thanks i do not have one like this my car came with an ultuma alter. from oriellys but tested bad so i got the 73 napa one. the volt reg i got is black square box with a ground, field input, ing. output. this is the one came on car when i got it with the ultama alter. other ones were basiclly the same only very cheaply made.
vrfront.jpg
vrback.jpg
vrfront.jpg
vrfront.jpg
vrback.jpg
and
67Dart273 said:
OK........on the alternator.........you are using the 70 and later "flat" electronic VR? Like this?

View attachment 1715098842

The big WARNING about the isolated field (late) alternators is that more and more of them "seem to be" showing up in stores WITH ONE BRUSH GROUNDED which of course is improper. You MUST check continuity on them.........The field terminals should have continuity from terminal to terminal but should NOT have continuity TO GROUND. "I bet" this is part of the cause of your wiring problems
Click to expand...
 
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