Mopar electronic ignition wiring schematic question

Electrical and Ignition

  1. prorac1

    prorac1 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,510
    Likes Received:
    1371
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2012
    Location:
    Martin, Mi
    Local Time:
    8:56 AM
    IMG_4778.PNG


    The above picture is what we are using for electronic ignition, and dual field alternator and regulator conversion . Two post ballast resistor, and four pin ECU.

    My question is, there are three unlabeled wires that go off towards the right-hand side of the schematic.

    One of them, obviously is the main charge wire for the alternator.

    What are the other two?

    The original wires for the point style ballast resistor?

    Thank you in advance for the help. Eric and Jason.
     
  2. 4spdragtop

    4spdragtop CONGRATS NORTH AMERICA! FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    31,508
    Likes Received:
    11996
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Location:
    Wasting time here
    Local Time:
    7:56 AM
    Believe ballast goes to key switch.
     
    • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • prorac1

      prorac1 Well-Known Member

      Messages:
      1,510
      Likes Received:
      1371
      Joined:
      Sep 29, 2012
      Location:
      Martin, Mi
      Local Time:
      8:56 AM
      I believe your right. I believe that's what those wires are.

      A keyed hot and a crank hot.

      Original ballast wires.

      But I'm not sure if they are polarity sensitive, or if they are even ignition switch wires honestly.

      Assuming gets me in trouble. Lol.
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • 4spdragtop

        4spdragtop CONGRATS NORTH AMERICA! FABO Gold Member

        Messages:
        31,508
        Likes Received:
        11996
        Joined:
        Aug 28, 2009
        Location:
        Wasting time here
        Local Time:
        7:56 AM
        Yep I just put my pos away for winter storage. Electrical issues fd my entire summer up. Sorry I ain't much help lol. Good luck.
         
        • Like Like x 1
        • prorac1

          prorac1 Well-Known Member

          Messages:
          1,510
          Likes Received:
          1371
          Joined:
          Sep 29, 2012
          Location:
          Martin, Mi
          Local Time:
          8:56 AM
          Thank you for trying though. LOL.

          That's why were over analyzing every circuit on this wiring harness. To avoid having those problems in the future. It's all laid on the bench in front of us, if we're going to do it, we may as well do it now and right.
           
          • Agree Agree x 1
          • Mike69cuda

            Mike69cuda 66 is the new 17 FABO Gold Member

            Messages:
            2,273
            Likes Received:
            1795
            Joined:
            Jan 2, 2018
            Location:
            Overland Park Kansas
            Local Time:
            7:56 AM
            I don’t understand the diagram. Why is the voltage regulator hooked to the start ignition supply? Seems wrong to me. Seems like the blue voltage regulator wire should be on the other side of the ballast resistor.
             
            • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
            • Mike69cuda

              Mike69cuda 66 is the new 17 FABO Gold Member

              Messages:
              2,273
              Likes Received:
              1795
              Joined:
              Jan 2, 2018
              Location:
              Overland Park Kansas
              Local Time:
              7:56 AM
              Top wire appears to be “start”
              Middle wire appears to be “run”
              Bottom wire appears to be “battery”
               
              • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
              • pishta

                pishta I know I'm right....

                Messages:
                19,830
                Likes Received:
                9200
                Joined:
                Oct 13, 2004
                Location:
                Tustin, CA
                Local Time:
                5:56 AM
                mopar-wiring-jpg.jpg
                 
                • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
                • prorac1

                  prorac1 Well-Known Member

                  Messages:
                  1,510
                  Likes Received:
                  1371
                  Joined:
                  Sep 29, 2012
                  Location:
                  Martin, Mi
                  Local Time:
                  8:56 AM
                  I have that diagram also. But I'm not sure how it would translate to a two post ballast resistor.

                  We have the four pin ECU, so I figured I would use the original looking to post ballast resistor.
                   
                • prorac1

                  prorac1 Well-Known Member

                  Messages:
                  1,510
                  Likes Received:
                  1371
                  Joined:
                  Sep 29, 2012
                  Location:
                  Martin, Mi
                  Local Time:
                  8:56 AM
                  Beats me. But that's how all of the diagrams I'm finding are wired.
                   
                • prorac1

                  prorac1 Well-Known Member

                  Messages:
                  1,510
                  Likes Received:
                  1371
                  Joined:
                  Sep 29, 2012
                  Location:
                  Martin, Mi
                  Local Time:
                  8:56 AM
                  IMG_4787.PNG

                  I found this Schematic from Mopar performance. It seems more along the lines of the one shown above only with a two post ballast resistor
                   
                • 4spdragtop

                  4spdragtop CONGRATS NORTH AMERICA! FABO Gold Member

                  Messages:
                  31,508
                  Likes Received:
                  11996
                  Joined:
                  Aug 28, 2009
                  Location:
                  Wasting time here
                  Local Time:
                  7:56 AM
                  Heres how I did mine, handdrawn diagram.

                  20181013_213540.jpg
                   
                  • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
                  • 67Dart273

                    67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

                    Messages:
                    48,278
                    Likes Received:
                    16312
                    Joined:
                    Oct 14, 2010
                    Location:
                    Idaho
                    Local Time:
                    5:56 AM
                    That diagram is wrong. The coil/ ballast wiring, whether 4 or 2 wire is unchanged from points. That is, the coil part of the wiring is all the same.
                     
                    • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
                    • prorac1

                      prorac1 Well-Known Member

                      Messages:
                      1,510
                      Likes Received:
                      1371
                      Joined:
                      Sep 29, 2012
                      Location:
                      Martin, Mi
                      Local Time:
                      8:56 AM
                      So the ballast is wired backwards in the original pic I posted?

                      Should I use Pishtas diagram than?

                      Thanks. Eric
                       
                    • 67Dart273

                      67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

                      Messages:
                      48,278
                      Likes Received:
                      16312
                      Joined:
                      Oct 14, 2010
                      Location:
                      Idaho
                      Local Time:
                      5:56 AM
                      https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/attachments/img_4787-png.1715251248/[/mg]

                      This is also partially wrong because of the reference to the yellow colored wire to the start relay. That wire is also unchanged in reality. It is supposed to be the coil/ bypass circuit IE ign2, which goes from the coil+ side of the ballast to the ignition switch IGN2 contact. it supplies power to the coil/ ignition for starting and bypasses the ballast

                      If you are ADDING a 4 pin ECU / breakerless system here are the basics Numbers are simply enumerators not pin numbers

                      A...GROUND ECU box MUST be grounded. MUST
                      B&C..........distributor pickup
                      D...............power to ECU. This goes to the "high" side of the ballst, IE directly from the key IGN1. This point also branches off under the hood and supples alternator field (blue), VR IGN terminal (blue) electric choke if used, and sometimes smog devices
                      E...........Coil NEG........this wire goes to coil - and switches the coil on/off just like the points did
                       
                      • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
                      • prorac1

                        prorac1 Well-Known Member

                        Messages:
                        1,510
                        Likes Received:
                        1371
                        Joined:
                        Sep 29, 2012
                        Location:
                        Martin, Mi
                        Local Time:
                        8:56 AM
                        That's beautiful!

                        That will work perfect!

                        Thank you very much sir.
                         
                        • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
                        • 67Dart273

                          67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

                          Messages:
                          48,278
                          Likes Received:
                          16312
                          Joined:
                          Oct 14, 2010
                          Location:
                          Idaho
                          Local Time:
                          5:56 AM
                          This is from MyMOpar. It is correct except it does not show the bypass (IGN2) circuit which is unchanged, anyhow. Notice at top right it says "splice" and "new wire". This is spliced into the existing ballast power supply wire from the key. So basically you leave the ballast / coil alone, disconnect the points, and hook the wire from the ECU up to the coil NEG in it's place

                          Ignition_System_4pin.jpg
                           
                          • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
                          • 67Dart273

                            67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

                            Messages:
                            48,278
                            Likes Received:
                            16312
                            Joined:
                            Oct 14, 2010
                            Location:
                            Idaho
                            Local Time:
                            5:56 AM
                            Sorry guys but some of the diagrams posted here are too darn small for me to read
                             
                            • Like Like x 1
                            • prorac1

                              prorac1 Well-Known Member

                              Messages:
                              1,510
                              Likes Received:
                              1371
                              Joined:
                              Sep 29, 2012
                              Location:
                              Martin, Mi
                              Local Time:
                              8:56 AM
                              Thank you so much. That definitely cleared a lot of things up.

                              I think I was over thinking it.

                              Leave ballast wires alone (stock)

                              Tie dual field alternator/regulator in with 12 volt feed to ECU.
                               
                            • prorac1

                              prorac1 Well-Known Member

                              Messages:
                              1,510
                              Likes Received:
                              1371
                              Joined:
                              Sep 29, 2012
                              Location:
                              Martin, Mi
                              Local Time:
                              8:56 AM
                              Our biggest stumbling block is that we are starting with an empty shell.

                              So I had no previous hook ups to reference from.

                              IMG_4742.JPG IMG_4773.PNG
                               
                              • Like Like x 1
                              • prorac1

                                prorac1 Well-Known Member

                                Messages:
                                1,510
                                Likes Received:
                                1371
                                Joined:
                                Sep 29, 2012
                                Location:
                                Martin, Mi
                                Local Time:
                                8:56 AM

                                Maybe a silly question.

                                But (just in case, I'd better ask) can you plug the two ballast resistor connectors in on the wrong ends?

                                As in mix the two single spades side for side and still work the same?
                                 
                              • pishta

                                pishta I know I'm right....

                                Messages:
                                19,830
                                Likes Received:
                                9200
                                Joined:
                                Oct 13, 2004
                                Location:
                                Tustin, CA
                                Local Time:
                                5:56 AM
                                the dual resistor has 2 resistor values (5 ohm feeds ECU, and .5-1.5 ohm to feed the coil) , but they are not polarized, hook em in any direction you want. Here is an old quote, take it or leave it:

                                "...Ok... let's clear up

                                dual ballast provides two sources by two diff resistances. One is 5 ohms ( secondary ) which feeds the stock 5 pins ECU, and the other one is anything between 1.5 or .5 ohms ( Primary ) which feeds the coil.

                                single ballast just provides power for the coil. Resistance varies depending on which one and application, between 1.5 and .25 ohms

                                on 5 pins ECU, the 5th pin takes ONE POWER SOURCE from the secondary ballast resistor on dual piece.

                                on 4 pins ECU, the secondary resistor is not anymore outside, was moved to INSIDE the ECU... that's why the pin is gone

                                you can fit a 4 pins ECU on an stock 5 pins system without problem, simply the secondary resistance power will be going to, ANYWHERE... the pin is not there

                                you should NOT use the 5 pins ECU, on a system set to 4 pins. Probably your car will start up and ride around, what doesn't mean will work properly..."

                                confirmed... mopar_5pin_ign.jpg
                                 
                                Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
                                • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
                                • prorac1

                                  prorac1 Well-Known Member

                                  Messages:
                                  1,510
                                  Likes Received:
                                  1371
                                  Joined:
                                  Sep 29, 2012
                                  Location:
                                  Martin, Mi
                                  Local Time:
                                  8:56 AM
                                  Wiring has begun.

                                  Thank you to everyone for the help. I have a much better understanding of the chrysler starting and charging circuits and how they intermingle with the ignition system. Thank you again.

                                  Come to find out……we have a 5 pin ECU. In the pictures I was looking at the center screw blocked the 5th post.

                                  Not a big deal, we had a brand new 4 bin ballast on hand.

                                  We also bypassed the bulkhead with the main hot wires, cleaned all connections and terminals with evaporust, wired the alternator charge wire to the starter relay, and ran new heavier guage wires to the interior, the battery (to feed the relay), and from the starter solenoid to the starter relay.

                                  We added in the electronic ignition, square back dual field alternator, and electronic regulator as well.

                                  So far it's turning out great.

                                  As the pictures show we are slowly "looming" everything together in an organized fashion.

                                  IMG_4804.JPG IMG_4805.JPG IMG_4806.JPG IMG_4810.JPG IMG_4814.JPG IMG_4815.JPG IMG_4816.JPG IMG_4817.JPG IMG_4818.JPG IMG_4819.JPG
                                   
                                  • Like Like x 1
                                  • prorac1

                                    prorac1 Well-Known Member

                                    Messages:
                                    1,510
                                    Likes Received:
                                    1371
                                    Joined:
                                    Sep 29, 2012
                                    Location:
                                    Martin, Mi
                                    Local Time:
                                    8:56 AM
                                    Yep……I count four pins


                                    IMG_4740.JPG

                                    Nope……there's the 5th pin. Lol
                                    IMG_4732.JPG
                                     
                                  • 67Dart273

                                    67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

                                    Messages:
                                    48,278
                                    Likes Received:
                                    16312
                                    Joined:
                                    Oct 14, 2010
                                    Location:
                                    Idaho
                                    Local Time:
                                    5:56 AM
                                    ^^I doubt you have a 5 pin ECU. You cannot tell by looking. Many especially aftermarket (that is one) ECU have 5 PHYSICAL pins but the 5th is unconnected. Without ohms test to the rest of the pins you cannot tell. But that is a "newer looking aftermarket" and I'd bet it is a 4. Running a 4 pin ballast won't hurt, it simply doesn't use the other section

                                    How to tell for sure? Easy. After you get it all wired up and running. Measure all 4 pins with the engine running. The two which are jumpered together will measure "same as battery" that is whatever the running V is (13.8--14.2) If the other two are both used, they will measure somewhat LESS than that showing that current is dropping voltage through them. If one is unused, it will be same as the supply pins
                                     
                                    • Like Like x 1
                                    1. This site uses cookies to help personalize content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
                                      By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.