Mopar performance 360/380 hp crate motor

Small Block Mopar Engine

  1. shootr2506

    shootr2506 Well-Known Member

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    Hi all I have a quick question I have a brand new Mopar performance 360/380 hp Crate motor I bought off a guy who never used it still in the blue crate .if I pull the heads and replace them with the best trick flow heads What will I gain or will I gain anything in horse power thank you
     
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    • dano

      dano Evil Handy Man

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      Is it a Magnum based engine? Best way to tell is the number of valve cover bolts. Have you ran the part number as it may have better than production heads on it?
       
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      • R4Sedan

        R4Sedan Forum H/R Dept. President FABO Gold Member

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        Those were really good motors. Why not leave it as is. Is it that you want more horse/torque? If that's the case, then why not sell that and build what you want.
         
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        • yellow rose

          yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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          If you change the heads, change the cam. They go together. The TF heads will require an adjustable rocker. I think someone did a build with the TF heads and used stock rockers. I would as why?
           
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          • 273

            273 Well-Known Member

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            Going from a 200 cfm head to a 300 plus cfm head will gain substantial power gains, problems is your stuck with 9:1 cr limiting and cam upgrade.
             
          • cawcislo

            cawcislo Well-Known Member

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            What is the purpose of this engine? Drag racing? Sunday cruiser? Street strip? Other. Based on that others can help provide info on what may or may not work in your situation.
             
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            • rumblefish360

              rumblefish360 So close, yet so far away FABO Gold Member

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              Yes, but, Not really unless he swaps in a cam that lifts the valve up high enough to take advantage of the heads greater flow. He will gain power but only as far as the flow differences allow at the max valve lift and only just on the raw numbers, there will be more power but minimal amounts. The actual port itself may or may not yield a greater result.

              IF! One can find a good reliable source of the stock head flow with the same valve in the head, (I forget if the MP 360/380 has OE valve size or an upgraded 2.02) they could match it up against the Trick Flow heads flow numbers and compare. The comparison would only be good until the cam stops lifting the valve which is around, IIRC, .513 lift? I forget!

              To really take advantage of that head, would be a new higher lifting the valve cam. (As a basic) Otherwise, I forecast low gains, high disappointment & a thin wallet.
              Truly the biggest issue are the pistons and how much lift they will allow..... or not....

              Also, what are the head chamber cc’s of each head?
              9.0-1 is that middle of the road ratio. Might have to play tricky things on it with cam timing to get best results.

              @R4Sedan , they were good engines for what they were and performed well for what they were. But I really didn’t and still don’t think much of them. They lack head flow and could really use a RPM intake, which MoPar doesn’t have. Just the aluminum dual plane copy and the as equipped, M1 single plane which is to much intake for what it is.

              They did do well at the track in gutted Dusters. That’s for sure! But not really a street friendly combo.
               
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              • 273

                273 Well-Known Member

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                Obviously the create cam ain’t gonna take advantage of every last hp the trick flows can provide, wouldn’t even on the stock heads.

                I don’t have the flow numbers but I’m sure even at .500 lift the trick flow has at least 50 plus cfm advantage which is easily most than 50 hp gain, I would call that substantial gain.
                 
              • rumblefish360

                rumblefish360 So close, yet so far away FABO Gold Member

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                Ehhh, the OE Magnums flow OK until .500 I was told/read. I’ll have to poke around and find something. As I sit here now pondering, 50 hp is a mighty stretch IMO. One reason is just because it flows that much doesn’t mean you get that much. I think the 360/380 cam takes advantage of the OE Magnum head for all that its worth for the most part.

                It would be worth (and fun) to dyno test that!
                 
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                • Bobzilla

                  Bobzilla Well-Known Member

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                  The camshaft in the 360/380hp crate engine was actually a huge compromise due to the stock valve retainer to guide clearance issues. The heads are completely stock, but they had the spring and retainer upgrade. The camshaft was not aggressive down low. Swapping just the heads won't work anyway because it should be a Magnum based engine with Magnum intake bolt pattern. Then it will require new rocker arms and pushrods since the Trick flow heads are LA based.
                  The best value with that crate engine is either run it as is after a good inspection, or get a better camshaft grind specifically for the intended use and combination.
                  Oh, and it would be down a little on compression with the trick flow swap since the Magnum heads it should be equipped with had smaller chambers than the Trick Flow.
                   
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                  • 273

                    273 Well-Known Member

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                    There’s a stock short block magnum build, they add a slightly hotter cam and ootb Edelbrock heads and air gap and made 450 hp
                     
                  • rumblefish360

                    rumblefish360 So close, yet so far away FABO Gold Member

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                    From Hughesengines web site;

                    Lift - I - E
                    .100 58 59
                    .200 109 103
                    .300 168 145
                    .350 192 157
                    .400 212 165
                    .450 228 172
                    .500 236 177
                    .550 238 180
                    .600 238 N/A

                    Trick Flow #’s from there site;
                    .100" 66 54
                    .200" 134 121
                    .300" 200 181
                    .400" 248 213
                    .500" 281 231
                    .600" 293 237
                    .700" 301 240


                    The in favor of the Trick Flow difference below.
                    The minus symbol shows deficit.

                    Lift - CFM I/E
                    .100 / 8 ... -5
                    .200 / 25 ... 8
                    .300 / 91 ...78
                    .400 / 36 ... 48
                    .500 / 45 ... 54
                    .600 / 55 ... 57 if the port holds at the previous test lift @ .550.

                    The TF gain @ .500 is 45 cfm on the intake. IF I read you right, just by the way you are thinking, 1 hp per cfm is what you were getting at for a street build return on air flow? As per your 50 hp gain suggestion.

                    Ehhhhh, IDK about that but that would be freakin awesome though. Anything is possible.

                    I think @RAMM, @ou812 or @IQ52 would really have a good handle on this. They would know IMO.

                    Those TF heads do look like a excellent street head for sure.
                    TF-190 vs my W5’s (that gave up the ghost a bit early. Big bummer but not horrible by any means.)

                    4.00 bore ———— —- 4.03 bore ———— 4.125 bore
                    .100" 66 54 ————- .60 - .53 ———- NA
                    .200" 134 121 —— 115.5 - .100.4 ——121 - 110
                    .300" 200 181 —— 172.6 - .141.8 —— 180 - 151
                    .400" 248 213 ——- 230 - 176.9 ——— 228 - 184
                    .500" 281 231 ——- 275.7- .198 ——— 278 - 206
                    .600" 293 237 ——- 294. - .212 ———- 308 - 218
                    .700" 301 240 ——- 288.6 - 222 - @.650 312 — @.700 235

                    The W5 head at least has a large unobstructed pathway.
                     
                  • rumblefish360

                    rumblefish360 So close, yet so far away FABO Gold Member

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                    That’s about, give or take, a 35/40 hp boost over what I have seen the MP dyno at. I bet the low end torque was much improved!
                     
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                    • Wyrmrider

                      Wyrmrider FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                      THE STOCK ROCKERS on the magnum heads are fine 1.7 is an easier upgrade than on a LA\
                      any data on DIY ported Magnums?
                      What are his rocker choices on the TFs and did TF relocate the stands so you do not have to have a B3 Kit
                      did we get the casting numbers off the heads?
                      anyone compare the ccs of the TF vs the Magnum heads? and do the magnums have the big valves
                      If we're spending someone elses money whats the comparison in cost to a stroker kit vs the TF heads
                      something I'd consider for an around town street build, truck, towing, tall gears and stock converter
                       
                    • Howard1784

                      Howard1784 Well-Known Member

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                      I have the same motor bought untouched like you did. I put eddy heads on after porting polishing gasket matching . Same with intake. Added roller rockers as well. Waiting to dyno .
                       
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                      • Howard1784

                        Howard1784 Well-Known Member

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                        Pic

                        20180915_145533.jpg
                         
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                        • shootr2506

                          shootr2506 Well-Known Member

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                          Thank you please let me know how you made out on the Dyno thank you
                           
                        • shootr2506

                          shootr2506 Well-Known Member

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                        • shootr2506

                          shootr2506 Well-Known Member

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                          Thank you all for responding back .
                           
                        • Wyrmrider

                          Wyrmrider FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                        • RAMM

                          RAMM Well-Known Member

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                          Would be interesting to dyno it before and after for sure. J.Rob
                           
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                          • Howard1784

                            Howard1784 Well-Known Member

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                            Thanks, good read. I bought all that edlebrock recommended. Push rods, roller rockers, arp stuff, ...
                            I never did a dyno baseline on the original set up so the chassis dyno will be interesting
                             
                          • Wyrmrider

                            Wyrmrider FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                            howard staet your own thread
                            you drank the kool aid
                            what roller rockers and why? what cam, springs etc
                            why no bullet proof iron rockers etc?
                             
                          • Howard1784

                            Howard1784 Well-Known Member

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                          • Moparhead

                            Moparhead Well-Known Member

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                            Great find tbh! They make around 400 with nice headers an decent carb. I love them as is and they preform very well at the track.
                             
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