MP 360 overheats no matter what i do

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panheadchuck

panheadchuck

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So i have an MP 400 HP 360 with the siamese 340 block and aluminum magnum heads ,
billet specialties tru trac serpentine with MP high flow water pump. Champion 3 row aluminum radiator, dual electric fans with shroud , 180* thermostat. in front of the radiator are an AC condensor and trans cooler . AC has not ran yet as its not charged. MSD atomic with timing control .

No matter what i do the car can idle both fans running full blast and it will come up to 220* driving it can go to 225 at a light when i get on the the open road it cools down slightly

things ive checked

Base timing is 15* BTDC per MSD instruction .
Distributor advance is locked out
fans come on at specified temp and stay on
i can feel plenty of hot air coming through them when they are on
i have made sure i put the thermostat in correctly
i tried adding a 5/8" restrictor in the lower hose to slow the flow and same result .
EVERYTHING i have for this cooling system is brand new so i doubt there are any clogs ,
afco collant
red line water wetter
lower hose is not collapsed when idleing
both hoses hot


i just dont understand whats going on here . the radiator is rated to 5-or 600 hp . fans are blowing strong . this car has been a two year project and after all of this i dont dare gdrive more than a mile in fear of a melt down .
 
How does the actual timing curve look like?

I would be trying some more idle advance.
15° is nice as a base timing, but you don't want to idle at that number.
Close or just over 20° is probably where your engine would be more happy.

Maybe try running it without the AC radiator as a test.
 
It probably could use more timing, but let's see a pic of this radiator and fan set up please.
 
^^^ Screw in more timing as suggested. It calmed my 372 down. MSD doesn't know what your particular motor wants, that's up to you to find out.
 
Do you have 'vacuum advance' set up in the unit?
If not, you could leave Base Timing at 15° and add, say 8° of vacuum advance.

I'm reading and educating myself on a different screen on how to program the Atomic and also noticed one has to setup the distributor and rotor with 15° advance. I think there's also a part of 'rotor phasing' being done here.
In doing so you need to put the Atomic in Lock timing mode so you confirm actual timing.
After that you need to Unlock timing again so Atomic can actually control timing again. Has this been done?
 
There was a guy on another forum recently that had his fan installed backwards (pushing engine side air into the radiator) so that is one easy thing to check.
 
Hows your exhaust smell? We had a 63 300 that had a leaking head gasket and it ran hotter than hell. Does the Atomic use an 02 sensor? Shame if it doesn't.
 
noooooo crap , and im an old carb guy but i tinkered with it a little . and to me this is un heard of but you guys are right started it had it up to 217* reving . Locked the timing as MSD requires . and started to advance the distributor. and the temp slowly came down at idle about a degree every couple of mins . HOWEVER i am at 45* base to me thats crazy but it seems to run ok . Gona let it cool overnight and see if we even reach 200 from a cold start . MSD is Commanding 12 Degrees at idls and timing light says just that .. WTF!!! lol ill post up my findings tomorrow
 
me guessing your timming marks are off or you have a issue with the timeing lite..
I sometimes time my motors by holding at about 3000rpm and advancing the dist until it starts surgeing then back it off a little bit. you would be surprised how close that gets you to proper numbers.
 
When it comes to digital ignition systems, you only set the distributor once, and never touch it again after that.
Timing changes should all be done digitally in the ECU.
If you did actually turn the distributor so it idles at 45° degrees now, the ECU still thinks it's at 12 or 15°, and will happily add another 15° orso advance to your 45 when revved!
 
Sounds like you are getting a handle on it. Verify your timing marks are accurate. I was going to suggest to make sure your water pump is turning the proper direction with your serpentine belt set up.
 
It seems like you’ve got some other issues with timing and that will definitely change some things. But, just for fun, what are the fans rated at for cfm?

Just because you can feel air moving doesn’t mean the fans are moving enough. The Ford Contour dual electric fan set up I use pulls 3,000 cfm on low speed and 5,000 cfm on high speed. Even on the low speed, you can tell the fans are on standing within a few feet of the engine compartment. It’s not just “the fans are moving air” it’s more like “hey it’s windy in here”.

If it’s the electric fan set up that comes with the champion radiator, you may need to do more.
 
i
340dartley said:
Sounds like you are getting a handle on it. Verify your timing marks are accurate. I was going to suggest to make sure your water pump is turning the proper direction with your serpentine belt set up.
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hope so its the pump that came with the tru trac system , ugh i may just put the ol mpdizzy back in and to hell with it. i never ran it withthat one to notice if it would overheat
 
I think something more is going on but a 3 row aluminum radiator is very inefficient. 'big' 2 row is about 20% more efficient.
Published HP ratings are total bull. We've had 1000 hp cars that are fine with small radiators and 400hp cars that need very big radiators. Way too many factors for a company to publish a HP range as the method to decide what radiator a motor needs.
 
Ccas said:
I think something more is going on but a 3 row aluminum radiator is very inefficient. 'big' 2 row is about 20% more efficient.
Published HP ratings are total bull. We've had 1000 hp cars that are fine with small radiators and 400hp cars that need very big radiators. Way too many factors for a company to publish a HP range as the method to decide what radiator a motor needs.
Click to expand...


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^FACT^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
if it were mine , I would ditch the electric fans and use a 7 blade clutch fan spaced about 1" away from the radiator inside a full shroud .
 
Ccas said:
I think something more is going on but a 3 row aluminum radiator is very inefficient. 'big' 2 row is about 20% more efficient.
Published HP ratings are total bull. We've had 1000 hp cars that are fine with small radiators and 400hp cars that need very big radiators. Way too many factors for a company to publish a HP range as the method to decide what radiator a motor needs.
Click to expand...

Over generalize much?

A 3 row radiator is not “very inefficient”. Is the 3rd row generally less efficient than the first two? Sure, in general. But the design of the radiator, size and shape of the tubes, spacing between the tubes etc all play a part in that efficiency. There are three row radiators out there that will outperform two row radiators, and two row radiators that will outperform 3. There’s a heck of a lot more to it than just 2 vs 3 rows in the core, so you can’t just throw out blanket “20% more efficient” claim either. That’s as much nonsense as a horsepower rating calculated by the manufacturer.

And I run a Champion 3 core 26” radiator in my Duster with a 400-ish hp 340 that’s punched out .060” and have never had a problem with it overheating. Quite the opposite, it’s managed just fine even stuck in traffic when it’s 110*F outside. Usually the the dual electric Contour fan set up I run stays on low speed, I’ve only ever had the high speed kick on a couple times.
 
panheadchuck said:
No matter what i do the car can idle both fans running full blast and it will come up to 220* driving it can go to 225 at a light when i get on the the open road it cools down slightly
Click to expand...
This here is very telling. With ram air at over 30mph, the temp should plummet to near T-stat rating. Since yours does not, there is a serious problem. Fix this issue first and see what comes out in the wash.
Things to check are;
A) the stat-house with an IR gun; I run 205*F full-time
The stat is supposed to set the minimum coolant temp. If you suspect it is faulty you can take it apart and reinstall the washer by itself..... just for testing purposes.
B) the water pump, for proper rotation and the anti-cavitation plate.The bottom of the rad should run at least 30*F cooler than the top, after the air has passed thru the fins.
C) proper cruise timing. I have a similar engine and it likes well over 45* at 2200. I have run it deep into the 50s at 3000rpm. Trailbeast runs similarly high numbers.
But I only run 14* at idle, increasing to 28* at 2800, then slowing to 34* at 3400. My V-can pulls in up to another 22*. This allows me to run 87E10 with an Scr of 10.9 at over 185psi...... full-time.
D) With the stat gutted, the hi-flow pump correctly rotating, and working, and proper timing, and I guess I should throw in not running crazy-lean or super rich; and at speeds over 40mph, ram-air thru the rad should actually overcool it. That is what the stat is supposed to prevent. If yours doesn't, look to ways that might prevent proper sufficient airflow thru/over the cooling fins, and that the fins are actually attached to the tubes.
Things like; air going around the rad, not getting into the front or not getting out the back.
At 40mph, ram-air should be sufficient to cool the engine without any help from the fans........ if the rest of the system is properly functioning.
Mine runs rock-steady at 205 or a little hotter, and has done so for IDK 14 years or more. (I run an ancient 1973 A/C 26" factory rad and a 7blade steel fan on a Ford pick-up thermostatic clutch. When it kicks in you know it! But I rarely hear it.)
Hope you get it sorted
 
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Get better e-fans that actually pull some amps and give ya at least 3k cfm or better.
 
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